They Say "85% Of Your Body Heat Leaves Through.."

Discussion in 'Winter Camping' started by SpecialAgentDBCooper, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. hdbeav

    hdbeav Supporter Supporter

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    Being a member of the got no hair club, I just HAVE to wear a hat in the cold.
    Have used these N-FERNO 6850's and 6870's. It's a hard hat liner with a mouth/nose cover that velcros on if you need it. I have moderate asthma so the mouth cover helps much in brutal cold. 20181010_161707.jpg
    They have ear pockets to add hand warmer packs if your not active, only used them once but toasty warm.
    20181010_161746.jpg

    I wear a $1.00 Walmart beanie over the liner. The liners weigh nothing and I usually carry a spare in case I sweat one up. They're plenty warm, cheap (around 6.50 each, 2.50 for the mouth piece), and easily washed, which covers a few points you brought up. 1227170924_HDR.jpg
     
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  2. PMSteve

    PMSteve Old Timey Outdoorsman Supporter

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  3. Kinggoat

    Kinggoat Scout

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    I use to have a cheap $10 thinsulate hat I had bought at Walmart years ago. When I moved in 2010 it disappeared. That was my go to hat for blowing snow. When it was s real cold the hood from my Carhart parka and it worked great together. Since then I usually have a coat with a hood in the winter. I
    have bought numerous hats form Duluth Trading Co. If the hat fits my big head it usually isn't great at blocking the wind. There in lies the problem I have. My big head.
     
  4. Caveman Cracker

    Caveman Cracker Supporter Supporter

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    20171201_212518.jpg warmest hat I've ever owned!!!
     
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  5. riokid87

    riokid87 Scout

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    Mine is fine.
     
  6. Primordial

    Primordial MOA #40 Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    For really cold weather you can't beat a bomber hat. Even in -20F I find them to be too hot to walk around in, but they are great if you are stationary.

    bomber hat.jpg

    A wool watch cap is also great in moderate cold but has less protection than a bomber hat offers.

    In cool weather or when I'm moving in moderate cold I like Kromer hat because I don't get too hot while wearing it, but it still offers warmth.

    DSC00219.JPG
     
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  7. riverjoe

    riverjoe Supporter Supporter

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    Here’s my modified 100% wool
    Hat . I think it pure wool
    ,I gave it the burn test and detect no plastics
    I got it at Goodwill for a dollar . It was a kids or lady’s hat so I had to rip it apart . I like wool
    because it is so porous so why have a shiney fine knit liner .
    I ripped that out and tossed it . Now I can pull my toboggan without being saturated with sweat . Had to add an elastic band into it .
    When stationary I just pull up the wool hood on my faux Italian wool
    Kapote . Had that thing for 30 years at least . Had to add a huge expansion joint in that too .

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. rbinhood

    rbinhood Tracker

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    I have two hats from Black Rock Gear. https://www.blackrockgear.com/ Not cheap, but well made and functional. They are currently on sale.
    One in blaze orange for deer hunting, the other is black for everything else. Warmest, lightest hats I own, except for a mountain man hat made from a Canadian Lynx hide.
    I have some merino wool hats, too, but the wind has a tendency to blow through them, no matter how tight the weave.
     
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  9. clueless on the delaware

    clueless on the delaware Scout

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    https://www.atthefrontshop.com/category_s/122.htm

    This company sells exact repro ww2 gear, us and german. I've got a lotta gear from them and its all top notch quality, including the USA made jeep cap. Also, if you subscribe to the email list the guy who runs puts out some pretty hilarious rants about the absurdities of ww2 re-enactors.
     
  10. teotwaki

    teotwaki Scout

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    Myth: You lose most of your body heat through your head.
    The amount of total body heat you can lose through your head (according to the myth) varies from 50 to as much as 85 percent. But your head accounts for only 10 percent of your total body surface. And, guess what, that’s exactly how much body heat you lose from your head—10 percent.
     
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  11. rbinhood

    rbinhood Tracker

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    As a percent of total body surface area, you are right, but your analysis fails to take account of where the heat is coming from and how the body may redistribute that heat around its surface, based on restricting blood flow. The brain needs a lot of blood to function. At times the hands and feet do not, yet hands and feet, because of their surface area, can dissipate a lot of heat. The body can also shunt blood away from them, to conserve heat.

    The question is not one dimensional, but depends on more than just surface area.

    The real issue is what is the best hat for keeping your head warm?
     
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  12. tomcfitz

    tomcfitz Supporter Supporter

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    I got a possum wool hat from new zealand (their possums are very different than ours, even spelled differently!)

    Its half possum wool, one quarter merino and one quarter "mulberry silk" or something. It's very thin but crazy warm! Possum fur is a hollow fiber, so its shockingly insulating for its thickness, and much lighter than sheeps wool.

    Seriously I cannot reccomend the thing enough. I think I got it somewhere called "ecowool"?
     
  13. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    It's a misquote and often repeated, the true quote should be read as " ****** A resting body adequately clothed whose head is not covered MAY ****"
    But as the head is well supplied with surface blood vessels and lots of sweat glands it becomes obvious that the head is a prime area where our bodies have adapted over time to shed extra heat though this area and remember that at rest and sleeping our brains do not shut down and the scalp and skull are not subject to the cold weather shunt that effects our feet and hands. Make that a thick, windproof hat when the temperature drops
     
  14. teotwaki

    teotwaki Scout

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    Consult the charts used for estimating burn surface areas (SA is about 22 sq feet) and it is simple to see the head is a small SA
    as are the feet and hands:

    [​IMG]

    Both hands are 6% SA and both feet are 7% SA so they are not "a lot of surface area" dissipating "a lot of heat".
    If I read correctly each square inch of skin has about 20 blood vessels so smaller SA means less blood vessels to dissipate heat or restrict heat loss. Your torso is 32% of the SA and will promote significant heat loss if not well insulated so vasoconstriction in the hands or feet is not going to "conserve heat" and help the torso as much as wearing a proper jacket will.


    The best hat is the one that fits your fashion fancy because the surface area of the head is a small number for an adult.

    I prefer Windstopper/softshell materials for movement in windy Alpine environments and a thin fleece cap or balaclava is fine
    for when I am stopped.

    At altitudes of 20K I made sure my torso was well insulated with a heavy down parka.
    If your core is good then there is plenty of warm blood for other areas, especially extremities. In this picture my hood is back and I've got just a thin fleece balaclava on my head at 20,320'. The blue nose thingy is for UV protection but not insulation, lol.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  15. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Small surface areas but high heat loss areas due to the factors I noted.
    But there is a difference between being active and being sedentary, personally I find a very warm hat my safety factor if I have to stop moving and my big balaclava has been a life saver a few times. I include the carotid /neck area when thinking about shedding/losing heat from the head [ also why I think vest need hoods] but it is the high blood flow to that 7% that makes it the High Heat Loss area in my opinion because that areas blood flow stays active even when stopped, yes it increases when active as does sweating from this area; this is why I remove my hood etc to cool down.
    I don't think we disagree, I think we place emphasis on different aspects of the spectrum
    Do you have a link for the blue nose protector or is it DIY? I need one for my new sunglasses, the Julbo one won't fit my new Oakleys I need side shields for them too as Oakley won't sell them to Australia
     
  16. teotwaki

    teotwaki Scout

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  17. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Got it
    Thanx
    I got direct from Nozkon
    Amazon no longer ship to Australia
     
  18. teotwaki

    teotwaki Scout

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    Excellent. If you spend a lot of time on snow and ice you'll want to apply a good sunblock to the lower area of your nose around your nostrils. Reflected sunlight can burn you just as badly as the direct rays can. Learned it the hard way.
     
  19. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Seeing as I have the inside of my nostrils in that condition at the moment I agree that it "smarts just a teeny bit" still snow on the ground in the hills here but the sun has a real Spring bite and I came home from the weekend with another set of racoon eyes. The moustache wasn't quite enough sunscreen and neither was the Nike mesh running hat which is SPF 30 so the scalp is also burnt.
     
  20. bgf

    bgf Scout

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    I've got one similar to this that I wore when I lived in Canada and still use now:
    https://www.orvis.com/p/the-ultimat...oL_vwTOBJCe-irdQlqlYAYKJfp4lB5SxoCIagQAvD_BwE

    Mine is not exactly the same, but that's the closest I could find. Mine is exactly the same, I think, down to color as the one the Alaskan trapper Marty wears on the TV show Mountain Men, so it must be good :)!

    It is fine for sleeping, but I use it for working in cold weather, so I got a cheap stocking cap to carry in my sleeping gear.
     
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  21. Gii shi kan dug

    Gii shi kan dug Supporter Supporter

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    This is about as warm as it gets. But still is comfortable into the high teens, low 20's. Got it from a member here. @aktatts
    Seal skin and Sea otter. SelfieMaster-20181017-200124200.jpg
     
  22. Sosteve

    Sosteve Scout

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    lol
     
  23. Keithturkjr

    Keithturkjr Scout

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    I dont think I'd ever want a down hat. when you start to over heat the head is one of the first places to sweat.

    Where I'm at light hats are good. Ball cap is a good default most of the time. If its cold I throw a beanie on top of the ball cap. In extreme cold a scarf or neck gaiter can increase coverage.
    In extreme cold like Alaska you start to see folks with bomber hats and trooper hats.

    I did buy one of these this year though its cool and I think I'm gonna like it a lot, but it is kinda thin, would need a second beanie in extreme cold.
    brimmed-beanie-orange_1__81878.1413239843.950.950.jpg


    Having a hat in extreme cold weather is important but the kind of hat is really less important than the kind of jacket in extreme cold though. If your hat isn't perfect you can tuck your head in an insulated hood if you have one.

    Jackets and Quarter zip pullovers are nice for most weather, but in extreme weather the best thing to have is a PARKA. Most oudoor clothing companies focus on weather above zero because that is what most people go out into when they are outside.

    Cornerstones of a good parka
    - insulated hood: When you get stationary or you hat isn't good enough or you lost your hat. This feature is better in rural areas than in the city, hoods affect peripheral vision so some people dont like them. But you dont want to want a hood that isn't there.

    -coverage below the waist line: I kinda like wearing an insulated bib over a hoodie when I'm active in the cold, but that doesn't work as well in heavy snow. elastic waistband jackets and and hoodies can climb up your body when moving around on the outside to insulated bibs and pants. Having a lower cut drape that scurely hangs over the top of the pants is really helpful when that nasty shit tries to get in from the middle.

    Breath-ability: Waterproof breathable isn't as good when it gets really cold because once it gets so cold that you get past the the freeze and thaw stage water proof is less important and getting water vapor to leave your outer layers before it freezes becomes the main priority. water repellant and very breathable is key.

    Insulation: Some people prefer to wear more layers and a thinner parka but I'd grab a thicker parka. If you really need a parka instead of a jacket its evil cold outside and dumping excess heat is pretty easy as long as you don't have a backpack on. You can toss layers or the parka in a back pack if they aren't needed but you cant make your parka thicker in the middle of the woods just because you want to be.
    Another argument for a a thicker parka is a quick trip to the store right before bed in your PJs. Sometimes you just don't want to layer up.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
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  24. Foilist

    Foilist Guide

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    Typically I wear a thin fleece beanie with earflaps. In nastier weather, I have a heavier fleece hood/buff-like thing. When it is really serious, a rabbit fur mad bomber, but it's hard to hear with that one.
     
  25. Stophel

    Stophel Scout

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    I saw this a few months ago on Etsy. Made for a lady, I'm sure, but I had to have it! HEAVILY felted wool (I think she said it was mohair blended too...) and hairy! It's actually a bit too big for me. I even put it in boiling water and it didn't shrink, it was already felted up as far as it will go!

    DSCF1375_800x597.JPG
     
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  26. OiMcCoy

    OiMcCoy Tracker

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    There are so many great options. I keep it simple, an acrylic wool knit hat and the hoody of my jacket.

    It's a good combo, a breathable hat or a full on microclimate at the ready.
     
  27. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    I like that cap. What brand? Where to find one? I have a particular Nike running cap that I really like but I am on my third and it is almost worn out and naturally they are discontinued. I like a LW breathable cap because it keeps my other stuff clean.
    Nothing wrong with layering up either except I sometimes lose track of what and where I'm wearing.
     
  28. Keithturkjr

    Keithturkjr Scout

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    The hat is from firstlite. You ever see the tv show "meateater"? The guys on that show are heavily sponsored with gear from Firstlite.
    Most Firstlite gear is pretty darn expensive like all of the really premium outdoor retailers, but you can usually afford a hat. I think I paid 25 bucks. they have camo and brown too, I got orange because I needed an orange hat to hunt with.

    Anyway I took it camping a couple weeks ago and it is very soft and comfortable. Its also not too hot which was a big concern of mine(imagine your only orange hat being hot sweaty wool out hunting, or trying to wear a goofy crappy orange ballcap that doesnt fit right even by itself over a beanie because its cold,....good times lol).
    The shape is comfortable, the bill of it is just big enough to keep the glare off my glasses.

    As far as warmth goes,...its about half as warm as my army issue wool beanie, so its definitely not a stand alone hat unless its midday and its warmed up, but on the bright side it does stretch over my wool beanie pretty well.
    It wasnt really cold enough that weekend for me to need both of them, but I did get enough experience with it to know that its going to be a good hunting hat.
     
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  29. Spinymouse

    Spinymouse Scout

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    I've never bought anything from these guys, but if you want a fur hat they may be a good option. Lots of styles that my grandparents from northeastern Europe would have recognized. Be forewarned about the prices though.

    https://www.furhatworld.com/winter-hats-c-42.html
     
  30. Outdoor Dauber

    Outdoor Dauber Supporter Supporter

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    That's what I grew up calling them. But when I moved to north central PA, I heard them called "stripper hats" because "you strip them down over your head". o_O
     
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  31. blind & lost

    blind & lost Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Are you on the summit of Denali? Wow!
     
  32. teotwaki

    teotwaki Scout

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    Yes I was. It was definitely a WOW moment for me too. Thanks!
     
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  33. blind & lost

    blind & lost Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I read your blog, great adventure. We flew on Talkeetna Air Taxi on a perfect day last year around Denali, it was spectacular!
     
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  34. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Denali was an old, old dream of mine, now I think I am too, too old.
    My beloved and I just pulled a Green Pepper pattern [ # F893] from her stash, she has offered to make me a new hat, the one with the ear flaps and the pull-down face mask. I accepted.
    Now I need to buy a small amount of Windstopper fleece for that headband part
     
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  35. dmilloutside

    dmilloutside Tracker

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    Yup, I wear vaious hats depending on conditions and my mood. I have wool Tilley, wool Stormy Kromer, military issue wool stocking cap, some camo fleece stocking caps. They all work.
     
  36. LazyPK

    LazyPK Supporter Supporter

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    Its a rabbit skin ushanka for me
     
  37. teotwaki

    teotwaki Scout

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    The folks at Talkeetna Air provided a great service for our climbing team. Wonderful folks. The aerial view of the mountain is amazing.
     
  38. blind & lost

    blind & lost Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Our flight was unbelievable, the pilot said it was one of the best days so far that year, July 2017. All of their staff were superb. I'd recommend them to anyone.
     
  39. USMCPOP

    USMCPOP Scout

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    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  40. Jugebear

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    +1 Hood is best "hat" in cold climate. Your body heat goes up, hood traps that heat. If you have big hood, like British Army windproof parka hood, you can reflect bonfire warmth with your hood. All primitive cold climate natives have hood in their clothes or very very big hat that works like hood.
    Edit
    I usually use thin wool cap when winter camping, and when i stop walking(body heat lowers) i put wool balaclava, wool beanie and hood. Extreme cold+wind i use hood for wind blocking. Also if you cover your face with something in extreme cold, be carefull with condensation that comes when you are breathing. Extreme cold+wet skin=not so good
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  41. Noblesavage

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    Jeep cap, think Radar O'Reilly of MASH. If colder I wear a watch cap under it.
     
  42. Stags Crest

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  43. Outdoor Dauber

    Outdoor Dauber Supporter Supporter

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    Where did you find that??
     
  44. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Well that Green Pepper pattern did not work, even the largest pattern size turned out too small to layer over my balaclava. Using 2 layers of 300Polartec made it smaller, be warned it is sized for cheap or 100wt fleece not the real thick stuff, even tho we made an allowance of 10mm for that it wasn't enough. I'll try again soon and post pictures
     
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  45. Keithturkjr

    Keithturkjr Scout

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    scroll up a little I answered this question :) Actually no I didnt. It did say its from firstlite, didnt say where I bought it.
    I bought it on ebay brand directly from the manufacturer
     
  46. Outdoor Dauber

    Outdoor Dauber Supporter Supporter

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    Thanks, I'll check them out! And sorry I missed that info in the previous post... :oops:

    Hummm...no orange ones listed now on eBay or Amazon. I'll have to keep looking and wear my Stormy Kromer in the meantime. Anyone have any good tips for stretching a SK that has gotten a bit too tight???
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 12:12 PM
  47. USMCPOP

    USMCPOP Scout

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    Here's a rather snazzy purple and orange cap. Looks pretty warm.

    [​IMG]
     
  48. Outdoor Dauber

    Outdoor Dauber Supporter Supporter

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    OH YEAH!!!! :59:
     
  49. Toytech

    Toytech Scout

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    That turban is probably just big enough to cover his hair , so hes got a natural ball of insulation under there , or a full robe if he lets it down and wraps it around himself . Ive got a fleece lined thick wool toque or rabbit trapper hat when its really cold , or a light synthetic toque when its less than blisteringly cold, but i run hot when outside so most times i jut keep a hat in the pocket of my coat.
     
  50. Youcantreadinthedark

    Youcantreadinthedark Amphibian. Supporter Bushclass I

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    I only deal with Virginia temperatures, but a stand-alone Buff hood with a microfleece neck gaiter is on my neck anytime it's below forty or so outside. I'll wear a ball cap, under a Carhartt beanie, under that hood, and I've got about four pounds of hair that creates an insulated nest inside all that.
     

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