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Tourniquet Pass Around *WARNING GRAPHIC*

Discussion in 'Bush Medicine' started by Medic17, Dec 11, 2016.

  1. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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  2. andy.t

    andy.t Guide Vendor

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    I think Ol Grizz is still working on them. They haven't come our way yet.
     
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  3. Ol Grizz

    Ol Grizz Scout

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    Yes, I still have them. Been sick with the flu (I think) all week, meds have been helping. Feeling somewhat better today. If the improvement continues I should have my experimentation and review completed by this time Sunday afternoon. Just haven't touched them since I opened the box.
     
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  4. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    Feel Better.
    No Rush.
     
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  5. Ol Grizz

    Ol Grizz Scout

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    First, thanks again to @Medic17 for initiating this pass-around and for providing the TQ’s for testing. This is an opportunity I have wanted for some time. Actually putting time into these different TQ’s and testing them for myself has been very instructive. Some of my results surprised me. On to my review…..

    First, the SWAT-T. A great simple idea. The simplicity drew me in but the application attempt was instructive. I could not self-apply this TQ with either hand, only using one hand. It works fantastically using two hands, however and it is multifunctional. This TQ (and maybe two of them) will find a place in my search & rescue kit to use on a subject. In particular, the pressure wrap application seems particularly useful in the wilderness context. Probably a little more useful than my current elastic wraps (ACE bandage) as you can get the unit tighter without deforming the wrap. The idea of being able to also use the device as a TQ makes this a no-brainer for me. So, my final thought – “great for thee but not for me”.

    CAT = Excellent traditional windlass-style TQ in my opinion. Easy to apply with either hand and even easier with two hands. Easy to adjust with one or two hands, weak or strong side. The hook-n-loop field on the strap provides a secure attachment and I liked this feature a lot. The nice wide strap is comfortable enough when applied to bare skin or over clothing. I like the windlass attachment point slightly better than the SOF-T, I think the cradle plus hook-n-loop over the top is a bit more secure. It also seems easier and more intuitive for someone untrained to operate during a patient evacuation. There is no doubt that this is what I will carry for myself.

    SOF-T Wide = Very good windlass-style TQ. This was my second choice to carry for myself. Most of the same comments I made regarding the CAT apply to this unit as well. I thought the windlass attachment point (a plastic triangle) could be less secure and was a bit more difficult to adjust. I also found the strap clip slightly more difficult to operate than the hook-n-loop of the CAT. Still, I would feel adequately served in an emergency if this was the TQ I was handed by someone else.

    RATS = Nice TQ, very easy to apply one handed with either weak or strong hand. It seems a little fiddly to get the tag end properly secured in the cleat. Not sure I would always have the presence of mind to do it properly, especially if I was applying it to myself while spurting blood. Very easy to apply to someone else. Not sure if I am completely convinced that the narrow elastic band is the best choice. I have to rationalize that some tissue damage is better than losing the limb completely or bleeding out. Nice and light but probably won’t find a place in my kit.

    TK-4 = This was actually my least favorite TQ. Application was doable with my strong hand, moderately difficult to apply with my weak hand. No matter how I secured the end hook I could not get it to engage properly so the TQ slipped and lost pressure. Probably not the result I want in the field even though this issue is likely the result of my own operator error. If I was applying it to someone else I guess I could always secure the hook with medical or duct tape. The wide elastic was comfortable on bare skin or over clothing. Seems like a good enough product but it doesn’t fit my requirements. I won’t be carrying this one.

    This review is VERY subjective. I have written it based on what I see as my own personal requirements. Negative comments refer to the application in my situation and are not reflections of the overall value of any specific TQ. My personal situation is a bit "non-standard" so I was looking at fulfilling some very specific requirements. As always, YMMV.

    Thanks again for the opportunity to learn first-hand.
     
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  6. crewhead05

    crewhead05 Supporter Supporter

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    Its somewhat suprising and also very revealing that the feedback is very much the same. This is a great pass around learning event.
     
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  7. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    @Ol Grizz Thanks for sharing your experience.
     
  8. andy.t

    andy.t Guide Vendor

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    SWAT-T:
    Leg:
    Could not get it tight enough around my thigh, over pant-leg. Was somewhat difficult to tuck the end.
    Arm: One-handed application was trickier than I expected. I dropped it on the first attempt, but was able to make it work. Was more difficult to tuck the end.

    In both cases it seemed like the band wanted to bunch up so that was applying pressure narrowly. I don't know if that's a problem or not. I liked that it can also be used for a number of other applications. There isn't a great place on the TQ to tag this with info like the time it was applied. It was a little difficult to get the high part of "high and tight" with this one when applying one-handed to my arm.

    RATS:
    Leg:
    Seemed good.
    Arm: One-handed application also seemed good.

    I haven't read much about this one. It's pretty intuitive to use. I noticed that when I cleated it once, the band slipped a little bit. That didn't seem ideal. When I double-cleated it, it stopped sliding through. I guess you could write right on the band when it was applied. High visibility orange seems like a good choice to me, compared with the muted colors of the other TQs. This is pretty much the narrowest band of the bunch.

    TK-4:
    Leg:
    I don't think I was able to get it tight enough.
    Arm: One-handed application was ok, but tucking the end was difficult.

    The elasticity was worrisome for me. I was concerned that if I lost my hold on it, it would whip around and whack me with the hook. However, when I tried letting go, it didn't go flying like I expected. Hard to get this one high up on my arm when doing it one-handed. I really didn't like this one much at all, thought I'm sure it has saved lives.

    CAT:
    Leg:
    Super Easy Application, after I figured out what I was doing wrong.
    Arm: Pretty Easy One-handed application

    The mechanism for holding it in place seemed a little fiddly and tripped me up on the one-handed application (the white velcro strap kept getting under the bar so that I couldn't secure the bar in place). The first time I applied it to my leg, I didn't pull enough slack out of the band and so couldn't cinch it tight enough with the bar. Chalk that up to learning curve. I didn't know they offer these in blue. I like the bright, easy-to-see colors.

    SOF:
    Leg:
    Super Easy
    Arm: I had a hard time pulling slack out with just one hand. I could either nudge it with my thumb or try to use the stump of my arm (on account of my hypothetical full amputation) to pin the tourniquet against my body.

    I liked the SOF hardware better than the CAT hardware. There also seemed to be more cinchability in the bar. The triangular catch holds the bar like a champ and was easy to use one-handed. I also liked that the tag is all the way at the end of the strap, where it might not be coated in blood and unwritable.
    Fun fact: I met one of the men behind the SOF tourniquet and he seemed like a nice guy. Very knowledgeable. Inspired confidence.

    Overall:
    I expected to like the SWAT, but came away not loving it as much as most of the others. Seems like a good item to have, generally speaking, but an also-ran as a tourniquet. The elasticity with the SWAT and TK-4 seems like it works against me instead of for me. The RATS was the easiest of the bunch to apply, but the slippage worried me, and the narrow band seems like it might not be ideal. I liked the SOF the best of the bunch, with the caveat that the CAT was much easier to apply one-handed.

    Ranking (with one being best and TK-4 being worst):
    1) SOF
    2) CAT
    3) RATS
    4) SWAT
    TK-4

    Many thanks to @Medic17 for making this happen. It was hugely helpful for me. I've used the SOF before in first aid training and fiddled around with a TK-4, but never had a chance to try the others out. There's no substitute for first-hand experience. It's interesting that each of these has its strengths and weaknesses. For instance, as good as the SOF and CAT are, I've heard folks say that the SWAT is sometimes easier to use and can even be more effective for pediatric use.
     
  9. TN_Woodman

    TN_Woodman Scout

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    Thanks for sharing.

    Sorry, it had a small plastic/paper tab to write on, but after playing with if over and over, it got torn off.

    You can get CATs in orange

    The blue color is for training purposes.
     
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  10. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    @TN_Woodman is correct on all accounts.
    To the best of my knowledge the colors offered are in the following.

    RATS Red, Black, Orange

    SOFT-T Black, Blue, Orange, Tan, and Red

    CAT- Black, Blue, Orange

    SWAT Black, Blue, Orange

    TK-4L Tan or Black, no choice. Depends on material for production.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    I would not get too hung up being able to write on these.
    After you apply one they are usually gunked up with blood and not easy to write on anyway.
    Small area, fine motor task, person squirming around- etc.

    Solution
    Only in a dire information in a emergency or MCI-
    (No one like to be written on, so it better be real important.)

    Get Sharpies. Two or more of them.
    Black and one Silver for darker skin shades.
     
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  11. Scratchthejeepguy

    Scratchthejeepguy Supporter Supporter Bushclass II

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    I realize the blue CAT is for training as I think it says "TRAINING" right on it... But what makes it usable for training only?

    Weaker material or something? I have a black one and couldn't tell a difference other than color.
     
  12. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    The blue CAT is the same TQT. The blue thing is a universal color for training.
    IE Blue Guns / blue spoons on dummy grenades etc.

    Its so you do not mix up your training stuff with your go time stuff.
    Tourniquets should only be used once for lifesaving use.
     
  13. Scratchthejeepguy

    Scratchthejeepguy Supporter Supporter Bushclass II

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    Ahhh, makes perfect sense. Thanks.
     
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  14. Subdood

    Subdood Ex-bubblehead Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    I have learned a ton from this thread both first hand and by reading the great input and questions. Thanks again @Medic17 and all the participants.

    I'm pretty set in my choices now. The reviews have been pretty consistent so I will be pulling the trigger in two TQs soon. I'm going to get a CAT and a RAT. I like the flexibility of having two different types that I am comfortable with.

    One question for the group that I think is in the overall spirit of the thread. Do you think a dedicated carry device for the CAT is a good idea?
     
  15. crewhead05

    crewhead05 Supporter Supporter

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    Are you talking about a TQ pouch? I would personally only want something like that if I were working as a logger or something similar where danger is always just a couple inches away. Otherwise i feel fine having a TQ in an outer bag pouch that is easy to access.
     
  16. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    I think carrying your Tqt in a container / kit of some sort is a good idea.
    It protects your tourniquet, and it makes finding it overall easier.

    The US Military ran several studies from battlefield use and found strapping it to the outside of LBE exposed it to UV which damaged the tourniquet.

    During blast injuries the rubber bands that were typically used to secure a tourniquet usually failed resulting the tourniquet being separated from the victim making it unavailable for use.

    Blast injuries aside, strapping them to your rifle or vest IMO is a good idea as long as you are willing to replace them every so often due to UV exposure.

    Eleven 10 Gear makes a few nice ridged pouches for the CAT for belt use if you want to secure it by itself.
    They are rapid access and IMO a good idea if you are doing things with boom sticks. It low profile and essentially like carrying a spare pistol mag.
     
  17. TN_Woodman

    TN_Woodman Scout

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    mine stays in my cargo pocket when in the woods.
     
  18. Gruntinhusaybah

    Gruntinhusaybah Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    Yes.
    I have been in the habit of carrying a TQ daily for a long time now, I have continued to do so in since separating from the military and events like the Boston bombing have only solidified my decision to carry one daily.

    What I have found to work very well for carying a TQ on your person is a Blue Force Gear belt pouch https://www.blueforcegear.com/556-mag-m4-belt-pouch.html
    as it is low profile and lightweight to the point of being unnoticeable.
     
  19. Subdood

    Subdood Ex-bubblehead Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    So you use the low rise M4 mag pouch?
     
  20. Gruntinhusaybah

    Gruntinhusaybah Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    the low rise is just the one I picked, any of them will work.
    The high rise if going to be lower profile, more concealed under a shirt. I've been using an original M4 10 speed with belt adapters.
     
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  21. Subdood

    Subdood Ex-bubblehead Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    Looked at the 1110 website and started down a rabbit hole. Is Frog Gauze more or less the same as the H&H you suggest elsewhere? Sorry to hijack.
     
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  22. Lazy J

    Lazy J Tracker

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    I carry the CAT in my medikit when hiking, haven't had to use it in an emergency yet (thankfully!). I found it easy to pack and have practised putting it on with one arm and found it simple and effective so would definitely recommend it. Haven't tried the others but I like the look of the TK-4 for something small to carry in your pocket.
     
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  23. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    No worries, its related.
    Frog Gauze and Primed Gauze are Not The Same.

    Frog Gauze is Z-Folded and Non Woven.
    Designed more for deep tissue packing.
    Overall not as compact as Primed Gauze

    Primed Gauze it Woven and Rolled.
    I feel rolled is more versatile overall bandaging. It adsorbs more IMO.
    Its a very compact package.

    In a sterile setting non woven is preferred for wound packing to prevent loose fibers.
    When the wound is dressed in the field it will undergo debridement once in the clinical setting so its kind of a moot point.

    I feel rolled gauze is easier to work with in a general application.
    Z Folded gauze is easier to use in a very specific application (Deep Tissue Packing) but cumbersome in a general application.

    It does not mean you cannot pack a deep wound with rolled gauze, just have to know a trick to make it easier.
    Instead of working from the tail end.
    Hold the gauze roll in your hand and pull it out from the center of the roll.
    It will pull from the center of a roll in a ribbon like fashion without having to roll rolling around in you hand.
     
  24. Subdood

    Subdood Ex-bubblehead Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    Thanks @Medic17 makes sense!
     
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  25. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    Here are my thoughts on the specific tourniquets.

    CAT (GEN 7 SPECIFIC ONLY*)
    If I could only have one tourniquet this one would be it.
    The new updates pushed them ahead of the game in my book.
    It goes on easy and the windlass securely locks into place.
    The windlass has been updated to address any strength concerns.
    The single routing buckle has increased is speed and avoids a potential error point by end user not routing the buckle correctly by not taking it out of the package. (Preloading)
    It is not overly heavy and fits well in most aid bags.
    It is very effective at femoral bleeding occlusion.

    SOF-T Wide
    This used to be my favorite tourniquet due to durability issues with the prior CATs.
    However it does have its drawbacks.
    Its heavy and the windlass does not cinch as far down as the CAT does. So you had to ensure proper placement before turning the windlass.
    I do not feel the method to secure the windlass is as effective as the CAT.
    I feel it pinches more than a CAT Tourniquet so application is more painful.
    Overall it is still a very good tourniquet.

    SWAT
    I really like these tourniquets.
    I will agree with most they are not real easy use for self rescue but with training and experience they will make do.
    Where they excel is when you use them on someone else.
    They work well on kids.
    With a simple pack or roll of gauze and a SWAT T you have a very effective compression bandage.
    They do just okay as a tourniquet but the multi use gives them an edge in my book.
    I feel they are inexpensive and store in a very compact package.
    The compact package is awesome when you are trying to be low profile or space is at a minimum.
    Since its a really wide elastic band, I found these to be the least painful when applied.

    RATs
    IMO There are more effective tourniquets out there, but they really do have an amazing strong point which makes them a consideration for a specific application.
    I feel the RATs is the fastest tourniquet that you can self apply on a dominant arm injury and any other injury for that matter.
    If I was going into harms way I would like to have one of these exposed and easily accessible on the outside of my gear for quick access.
    However with that said, I would not replace my CAT with one. There would be a CAT (or two) in my IFAK.

    TK-4L
    They are the cheapest however thats the only strong point.
    They are not the best at occlusion, improvisation, speed, ease of use, or storage.
    If they went off the market I would not miss them.


    REMEMBER- NO TOURNIQUET IS PERFECT!

    They all require training and proficiency in order to ensure the greatest chance of success.

    Sometimes single injuries may require multiple tourniquets or you will have injuries on multiple extremities. Personally I prefer carrying the CAT and a SWAT together.

    There was a great video out a while back where a guy at a range had a ND. Single round to both legs. Multiple tourniquets involved. Too bad I cannot seem to locate it.


    ________________________________________________________
    *IA Woodsman- Permission to post Graphic EDUCATIONAL References*

    WARNING EXTREMELY VIOLENT AND GRAPHIC VIDEO

    Intent is to demonstrate how quickly you can bleed out from a GSW.
    Two shots were fired, looks like one was in the arm and the other in the leg. No aid was rendered, the victim is deceased. The GSWs were low enough that tourniquets would have been beneficial. If aid was administered this victim would have been viable.

    Remember you do not have to be shot by someone else, negligent discharges happen. "Just shot in the leg", or "just shoot him in the leg" can be lethal.

    One of most common causes of femoral artery injuries that I have seen have been self inflected from people cutting cardboard with box cutters.
    Other common arterial injuries have been from broken glass, motorcycle, and industrial accidents. You do not have to be in a war zone to see an arterial injury.

    Bleeding control is one of the most basic functions you can do to help save someones life in an emergency.

    Don't get me wrong CPR is great, but they are already dead.
    Its best not to get to that point.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  26. crewhead05

    crewhead05 Supporter Supporter

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  27. Subdood

    Subdood Ex-bubblehead Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    @Medic17 thanks for sharing that. It is disturbing and graphic to say the least. But eye opening at the same time.
     
  28. Gruntinhusaybah

    Gruntinhusaybah Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    Medic17 beat to me to it, and as usual his response is right on.
     
  29. Bitterroot Native

    Bitterroot Native Guide

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    I received the tourniquets! I'll be posting a review within the next couple of days. Helping my sister move is the reason for the delay :(.

    Great video and advice Medic17! I'm with you on training and being proficient with their use. A lot of folks have the mindset of "it's just tightening a strap around an arm or a leg, too easy, I don't need to practice this" when it comes to tourniquets. I know that was how I saw them when I first started being trained in their use.

    Like anything else hands on experience, learning the little ins and outs of working with even something as simple as a strap that tightens down, is invaluable.

    Thanks for the video, I always enjoy your posts.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
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  30. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    @crewhead05
    I have no experience with the SAM Tourniquets.
    The first time I saw them was with this video.
    Looks CATish and a robust design. Maybe a little bulky.

    No experience but it looks like that "click" device may be troublesome if accidentally activated or activated in the wrong location.

    I would not mind getting my sh*t mitts on them for a trial and eval.
    Ill look into some of my resources to possibly get that done.
    Cost is always a factor against reasonably priced proven designs.

    I always like seeing new designs.
    Some are better, some not.
    It shows that the market is looking to improve the mousetrap to make bleeding control more efficient.
     
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  31. Bitterroot Native

    Bitterroot Native Guide

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    Hello BCUSA! After receiving the tourniquets I did quite a bit of playing around and thinking about the various pros/cons to each of them. Having only used/worked with CAT tourniquets before I was excited to see what else was on the market and what else people were using. I didn't read this post much as to not skew my thoughts in any way.

    Having been a medic in the US Army, all of my training is geared towards using tourniquets in a combat setting. I have been trained extensively in their use as they are the bread and butter of battlefield medicine but only have used them a small handful of times. When checking these out I tried to look at things from more of a wilderness rescue/bushcrafty perspective.

    The CAT (Gen7):
    Ease of storage- Bulkier than the rest of them, large windlass and the material doesn't compress/fold down very compactly. Overall the size isn't much bigger than the others and really wouldn't be hard to throw in a small kit.
    Ease of use one handed- Very easy to apply to yourself with only 1 hand. The strap material grips well on the skin allowing for a good grip so you can really tighten down even when the tourniquet and skin is blood laden. The windlass is easy to secure with one hand due to the large gap and simple hook and loop fastener (velcro) system.
    Ease of use on a casualty- Incredibly easy to use! Really straightforward system. Wham bam boom done, doesn't take long at all to get one of these in place and tight. Not sure if it's actually easy to use or it's just the fact I'm so familiar with them but for me I find it's use easier and more efficient than the rest.

    Overall this is my favorite tourniquet hands down. I had a feeling I would be partial to the CAT as its use has been beaten into my brain for years but it really does outshine the rest of them. The "Time:" area is in a perfect spot that way any personnel removing the tourniquet will see the time written in plain sight, you can't take it off without seeing it. They could have made the tab at the end a different color than bright red. When coated with blood that might make it a little difficult to see, they should have made it blaze orange or a bright yellow/green color.

    SOFT-W:
    Ease of storage- Slightly less bulky than the CAT. Metal windlass is smaller but a bit heavier than the CAT's. Probably the second largest of the tourniquets. Tourniquets are small, store easy.
    Ease of use one handed- I was surprised at how easy this one was to use on an arm one handed. The clip slides on easily with one hand and it is pretty easy to use despite the strap material being a bit slippery. I would imagine when blood soaked this one would be sliding around a good bit but once fastened would be secure. I thought that sticking the end of the windlass into the metal fastener was a bit tough however.
    Ease of use on a casualty- Used a simulated limb (hide rolled up tight) and my leg to see how this would go when putting it on someone else. The more I used it the more I liked it. The clip is very solid and the strap cinches down very tightly and doesn't budge. I thought it was very similar to the CAT.

    My second favorite of the group! When I first picked it up I hated it to be honest. I couldn't figure out how to secure it and had to look at the video. I wanted to try using it without knowledge of how it works to simulate how an untrained person or stranger happening upon you would do trying to use it. I'm not very good at figuring out clips, ropes, cogs, gears, anything mechanical in nature (even things as simple as a clip on a strap). A good example of how important training with your equipment is! Once I had the clip figured out I turned out to really like it, it's up there with the CAT in my opinion. The space to write the time could be in a more visible spot but not a deal breaker.

    TK4-L:
    Ease of storage- Compresses down very small! Probably the most storage friendly of the group with only two small rigid hooks. Could easily fit in any kit.
    Ease of use one handed- I thought using this on an arm one handed was tough. Having to wrap it multiple times is a hassle in my opinion and wastes valuable time. With some practice it gets easier. Not something I would want to use one handed if I had other options but it would do the job.
    Ease of use on a casualty- Fairly easy to put on and use, not ideal though. Again, having to wrap it around multiple times makes it more difficult for yourself as well as the patient. It also seemed a bit difficult to get uniform pressure across the tourniquet due to the wrapping action.

    One of my least favorites of the bunch. Nothing more than a glorified pressure dressing/bandage really. If I needed a tourniquet I'm not sure I would pick this one over my leather belt in an emergency situation. Despite it's shortcomings it's easy to figure out how to secure for an untrained person. The elastic looks like it would fray in a wilderness survival situation, being possibly drug and scraped on sticks and rocks. The hooks are fastened on securely with metal wire but I just don't trust it for some reason. I know I keep saying it but having to wrap around the extremity like that is a bane. Manipulating the injured area that much increases discomfort (and possibly furthers injury) and leads to unequal pressure distribution across the area.

    SWAT-T:
    Ease of storage- Super easy to store, could even be taken out of the bag and folded/rolled flat.
    Ease of use one handed- The need to tuck in the loose end makes putting this one on with one hand somewhat of a challenge. Tightening it up seems easy enough but the first wrap was a bit tough to get going. Better than the TK4-L for 1 handed application but it falls short of the CAT or SOFT-T.
    Ease of use on a casualty- Using two hands or applying it to ones own leg is pretty straightforward and easy. I don't like having to tuck it to secure it but the simplicity of it is nice. Once again having to wrap it has the downsides I mentioned previously.

    Not a bad tourniquet overall. My third favorite of the bunch behind the CAT and SOFT-T. With training and practice this is a worthy piece of equipment. The rubber type material grips skin and its self very well, better than one would first think but I would be concerned with the durability/longevity of the material. The method of securing it is what worries me the most. I feel like over time it would slip a bit and loosen. Especially in a vehicle being transported on bumpy wilderness dirt roads, traversing terrain for self rescue/extrication, ect. This tourniquet has the added bonus that it could function well as a pressure dressing making it a multi use piece of equipment.

    RATS:
    Ease of storage- One of the smaller tourniquets on the list. The thin elastic type band takes up hardly any space and the rigid fastener/clip is small and light.
    Ease of use one handed- Actually pretty easy to apply using one hand. Able to get good pressure and a good cinch also pulling the elastic into the clip is very easy.
    Ease of use on a casualty- About the same as the TK4-L, easy to use and put on but faces the same issues due to having to wrap. However the clip seems more sturdy and secure.

    This one is better than the TK4-L but only slightly making it my fourth choice. The color is nice making it very visible for doctors/rescue team to see. It's important that a tourniquet not go unnoticed. The band is pretty thin which would make it important to wrap it correctly, not too close together but not too far away. Once figured out the tourniquet secures pretty well but without watching the video or somehow being instructed in its use I found it hard to apply correctly. The loop is supposed to be large enough for you to fit 3 fingers in, then you pass the loose end through it and use it to tighten down. The clip slides around so upon first picking up the tourniquet it wasn't intuitive to me that I should use that as a loop rather than place the extremity through it. Confused me until I watched the video, again highlighting the need for training and familiarity with equipment.

    Really enjoyed the opportunity to check these tourniquets out. Big thanks to everyone participating in the pass around, also thanks to @Medic17 for getting this going! All of these tourniquets would work in a life or death situation but some definitely get the job done better than others. Practice and training is essential for using these correctly and providing the best chance of saving your life or someone elses. Anyone spending any time in the woods (and anyone else for that matter) should learn how to apply tourniquets.

    Thanks for reading! :dblthumb:
     
  32. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    Another Article About Bleeding Control
    (Nothing ground breaking but a re-evaluation of old school thinking.)
    http://www.jems.com/articles/print/...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    I made this post a few days ago, it relates.

    FWIW Powdered QuikClot is a first generation product.
    They have not made that version for close to 10 years now.
    The powdered form was also the product that was associated with heat.


    ZMedica (QuikClot) does gauze (rolled, folded, or sponges) and pouches.
    I believe they discontinued the nosebleed wicks too.
    The pouches look like a tea bag of beads you stuff into a wound.

    AND YES
    You are supposed to stuff QuikClot inside of a wound. It does not work on the surface.
    1. Tourniquet
    2. Stabilize the Extremity and Scrape out the Clotted Blood.
    3. Pack the wound at the source of the bleeding with the hemostatic agent.
    4. Wrap and Apply Direct Pressure.

    Just another Rant
    QuckClot and other Hemostatic Agents are not miracle products. They will not function very well if you do not know the basics of bleeding control and how to properly apply them.
     
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  33. Pastor Chris

    Pastor Chris Hardwoodsman #7 Hobbyist Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    The tourniquets arrived today lovingly packaged and wrapped with various sorts of natural cordage. Very cool. I am headed to Stokes State forest tomorrow for an overnighter and will hopeful have a chance to play with these and offer my thoughts.

    Thanks for the opportunity to try these out!
     
  34. Pastor Chris

    Pastor Chris Hardwoodsman #7 Hobbyist Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    I've been playing with these a bit this afternoon and first impressions are: The CAT is my favorite and easiest to use on others and myself.

    The SOF TT is a poor imitation of the CAT, despite the cool aluminum windlass bar. I find it slips around the limb when trying to tighten and the form of buckle does not allow it to be pre-tightened as easily, or as much, as the CAT, requiring more turns of the windlass. Also the windlass latch is harder to use, especially as the windlass is wound tighter.

    The RATS is not bad but damned uncomfortable and I would worry about permanent damage to the limb/girdling if this was used in a wilderness/remote situation where evacuation of the patient or rescue would take hours.

    The TK4 looks like it was made in someone's shed but it fairly comfortable and I think easy to deploy.

    The SWAT-T is very impressive. It takes a little care to put on comfortably but it is easy, compact, effective and would also be very useful simply as a compression dressing, I really like it. Not quite as easy to self-deploy as the CAT, but I REALLY like it.

    I'm headed out on an overnight outing tomorrow so I will bring these along and hopefully find some willing subjects for practice!
     
  35. Bitterroot Native

    Bitterroot Native Guide

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    Didn't feel right tossing them in a box loose! Glad you liked the natural cordage/lashings :dblthumb:.

    Enjoy your overnighter!
     
  36. Pastor Chris

    Pastor Chris Hardwoodsman #7 Hobbyist Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    IMG_1204.JPG Just a quick photo from a recent meet at Stokes State Forest. We did a short FAK show and tell and a bit of playing and demonstrating with the TQs.

    I have formed some concrete opinions on these and will get my thoughts and review up soon and send them on.

    This was a very interesting opportunity having all 5 styles to play with. Thanks again @Medic17 !
     
  37. Pastor Chris

    Pastor Chris Hardwoodsman #7 Hobbyist Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    Here are my final thoughts and opinions with regards to the five types of tourniquets provided for review:

    My hands down favorites are the CAT G7 and the SWAT-T. I think that the CAT is the best overall for ease of use both in applying to myself and others. I found it went on quickly and reliably and required very little effort to occlude pulse. The SWAT T was a little harder to put on myself, but very easy to put on another person. I also found it very versatile for other uses, such as splinting, as a pressure bandage. It is just a hand thing to have in my kit.

    I dont place too much stock in the compactness category. Others like the TK4-L and the RATS might pack smaller, but for the small space penalty, I would stick with my choices.

    As mentioned earlier, I found the TK4-L to be the shoddiest in construction, not that I damaged it, but I wouldn't want to rely upon it. It was fairly easy to deploy, and I liked that, but the quality seemed lacking, and that is not what I want in a tourniquet.

    My objections to the RATS were that feeding the tag end through the loop didn't seem like something I would want to have to do in a pressure situation, and the girdling effect was scary. In terms of quality it seemed pretty solid, but overall I couldn't get too excited about it.

    The SOFT-W just seemed like someone was trying too hard. I don't know if that preceded or succeeded the CAT in design, but it falls much too short in my opinion. The chief objections are that it slides too much when trying to tighten the band, which is where the CAT excels. Also, too many turns of the windlass are required to occlude pulse and when the strap wraps around the windlass it ends up at a funny angle and it can be hard to flip the lock over the end of the windlass.

    Those are my thoughts and I stand by them.

    Thanks to @Medic17 for the opportunity, the TQs will be on their way to you tomorrow.

    Thanks to Jake for being my guinea pig and anyone else I tired to wrap one of these around!
     
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  38. Subdood

    Subdood Ex-bubblehead Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    Thanks for the reviews all. I have a RATs now for EDC and a CAT G7 en route as well as some other stuff to solidify my PFAK. I'm going to stuff it all into a Maxped FR-1 I have laying about. Thanks again all who have participated so far and @Medic17 for the chance!
     
  39. T. Pollock

    T. Pollock T's Custom Outdoor Gear Vendor Supporter Bushclass I

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    It has indeed been very educational. Thanks @Medic17 for allowing us this great opportunity and to everyone that participated for your reviews.
     
  40. crewhead05

    crewhead05 Supporter Supporter

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    I assume most of the people following this thread are at the very least interested in new/better med gear.

    Anyway I saw this today. Not sure it would ever fit my needs but it may fit yours.

    T1.jpg

    T2.jpg
     
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  41. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    I am getting this rolling again. @NJHeart2Heart, please send me your address.
    Ill get them out to you tomorrow.

    If anyone else is interested let me know. Ill add you to the list.
     
  42. Odinborn

    Odinborn Scout

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    I would be interested. I'm no one special but I'm in school for Phlebotomy, so tourniquets (albeit different ones) are an item used a lot. Would be interested in seeing the differences as I would like to purchase one soon.
     
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  43. TX_redneck

    TX_redneck Scout

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    I received them yesterday on my patio.

    After playing around with them last night, I have found that I liked one in particular.

    I will do a little more "playing around" with them tonight as well, then do a write up tomorrow.
     
  44. TX_redneck

    TX_redneck Scout

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    Who is next on this line-up?
    I will be out of town this weekend, and would like to get this package out before I go.
     
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  45. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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  46. Jasonacraft

    Jasonacraft Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    Thanks! Address sent
     
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  47. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    Pass Around has ended until contact has been established with @TX_redneck .

    Tourniquets are MIA.
     
  48. renter6

    renter6 Scout

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    Extremely valuable thread and discussion nonetheless Medic17. I hope I've learned from it. Since I carry and carve with an axe, I added a tourniquet and materials for a pressure bandage to my aid kit (I bought two so I could practice with one, and went with the the TK4 for versatility and possible use on one of my two small children, God forbid...). I'm grateful for this stellar passaround. Thanks much.
     
  49. TN_Woodman

    TN_Woodman Scout

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    Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking about this thread the other day, wish it would continue. Great thread.
     
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  50. T. Pollock

    T. Pollock T's Custom Outdoor Gear Vendor Supporter Bushclass I

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    It's a damn shame that some people are no more responsible than they are! Thank you for allowing me to be part of this and for your generosity @Medic17 I'm sorry both for your loss of the equipment & for those that won't get to have the experience with them due to one person's negligence.
     

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