Trying to figure out if this is a good grouping or not.

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by GingerBeardMan, Aug 8, 2019.

?

Is this an ok grouping?

Poll closed Aug 10, 2019.
  1. no, do better

    57.1%
  2. its ok

    21.4%
  3. too hard to say

    21.4%
  1. GingerBeardMan

    GingerBeardMan Tracker

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    I've been shooting at the recycle logo on the backs of old pizza boxes with this cheapo air pistol (Crosman MK 45) from about 5 yards away, pretty close range. I'm free handing this and I dont think my pea shooter much more than a half pound, which makes it a little tricky. The recycle symbol is about an inch and a half across and at even 5 yards on these sights I think my forward sight almost blocks it from view.

    So, I'm getting groupings on this of about, 1.5 to 2.5 inches on average from 5 yards, adding around a quarter inch to both ends of the range at 10. the magazine holds 20 rounds so I'm shooting 20 round groupings. It's at 5-7 yards because that's about how much space I have to shoot right now. Edit: if it matters I'm shooting steel bbs, not pellets. I understand the shuttlecock shaped pellets are usually a fair bit more accurate.

    I'm only used to shooting a 9mm at about 25 yards so it's kind of hard to assess how I'm doing. It's been a minute but I think I used to average out at about 5-7 inch groupings free-free-handing it at that distance.

    What do you folks think?
     
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  2. 11C1P

    11C1P Scout

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    1.5" group @ 5yds = 30MOA, 2.5" group @ yds = 50MOA. That is quite horrible. Maybe post a pic would help too.
     
  3. Mikewood

    Mikewood Supporter Supporter

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    I voted no do better. What I meant to say is you can very likely do much better with a better gun. I would sand bag the gun and shoot from a full rest with a proper target and see how good the gun is. Then add human error to the mix.
     
  4. GingerBeardMan

    GingerBeardMan Tracker

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    Sandbagged this thing isnt doing much better. these are 50 meter small bore rifle targets. 2½ inches at 10 yards.
     

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  5. Duncsquatch

    Duncsquatch Heed the call. Supporter

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    Wow that gun seems not great.
     
  6. GingerBeardMan

    GingerBeardMan Tracker

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    Yeah, I think it might just do for rapid pellet disposal. What a hunk of junk. I'm no sharpshooter but I am not this bad.
     
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  7. Park Swan

    Park Swan Maker Vendor

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    What about with pellets? My crosman 1322 is very picky with ammo. Normal pellets and there are fliers all over the place at ten yards. Heavy H&N pellets give me a dime size group at 20 yards with cheapo red dot.
     
  8. pab1

    pab1 Supporter Supporter Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    I voted "too hard to say" since I don't know if its the gun you the operator. If the gun isn't accurate to begin with it can be pointless to try shooting tight groups with it. If that's the case about the only thing it would be good for is practicing shooting fundamentals.

    Its not that pricey but my sons Crosman 1377 is a very accurate gun. I use it for practice often. This is a 6 shot group I shot with it a while back. I would recommend picking up a pistol capable of shooting tight groups that will help you build skills and confidence.

    Crosman 1377 6 shot group.jpg
     
  9. GingerBeardMan

    GingerBeardMan Tracker

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    All it will shoot are the little BBs. I bought the daisy brand because it was what's available. I'll go back and see if I can get a package of the hornady ones. Maybe i can lube the barrel up a little more. I wish this thing could take pellets but the magazine is only set up for spherical shaped objects.

    At this point yeah, We'll use it to build up fundamentals. I wish I had read more reviews. So far this thing has also jammed 6 times. Its only had maybe ten full magazines run through it.

    I'll see about getting a 1377. Hell, I might just trash this junker Mk 45 and go buy a Ruger Wrangler and skip this step altogether.
     
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  10. 11C1P

    11C1P Scout

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    A bad group is a bad group whether it's the weapon, the ammo, the operator, a combination of them or some other reason. 30-50MOA is a bad group.
     
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  11. central joe

    central joe Wait For Me!! Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I took into account the pistol you have and voted OK. I bet ya could do better with a better quality pellet pistol. joe
     
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  12. Elgatodeacero

    Elgatodeacero Scout

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    As noted above, try the Crosman 1377, 1322 or 2240 for very good quality and value for about 50 bucks.

    These will be single shot, but that is the price of a decently accurate air gun.
     
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  13. RJM52

    RJM52 Guide

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    GBM...the gun you are shooting really wasn't made for for "target" shooting...as in precision target shooting. It was made for simulated combat practice. There is no comparison in accuracy between an unrifled BB gun and most any pellet pistol which is rifled.

    I've got a CO2 BB gun that is almost an identical copy of the Colt Commander I carry daily. It is tin can accurate out to about 15 yards but I don't expect anything more out of it....

    Bob
     
  14. pab1

    pab1 Supporter Supporter Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    Obviously I was not commenting only on the group size but contributing factors. If he has a gun that's incapable of firing a decent group he needs to start there. Its pointless to try to improve your skills with a gun that won't reflect the time and effort you put in.

    I was trying to help narrow down what the reason for the group size is. If he's shooting a gun capable of good accuracy then its obvious what the problem is. I have seen people shoot some of my handguns that are capable of sub-MOA groups poorly. Since I know what the gun is capable of doing I can help them improve their skills and groups.

    Just telling somebody "that is quite horrible" isn't going to help them improve. I would rather build someone up by helping them determine what the issue is. Just commenting that someone shot a poor group doesn't help them.
     
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  15. RJM52

    RJM52 Guide

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    As to MOA...I know a LOT of shooters who can't run a 2" group at 5 yards with their defensive handgun...
     
  16. 11C1P

    11C1P Scout

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    If they can't handle hearing if their grouping is bad, they shouldn't ask the question. That's one of the biggest problems now days is that so many younger people have all been coddled, always got a trophy, told they can be anything or any gender that strikes them. Eventually the Mr. Rogers land of make believe has to come to an end & people are not doing kids any favors by trying to shield them. His group was bad. I never said HE was bad or anything like that. Telling people the truth DOES help them, especially if they ASK for it. Lying & coddling them does more harm than anything.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
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  17. pab1

    pab1 Supporter Supporter Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    So, don't share knowledge or experience, just ridicule. I see that mentality all the time. There are plenty of other forums out there where the members ridicule and criticize everything but never offer help or constructive advice.

    You can justify that behavior all you want, making claims about lying, coddling, land of make believe, or gender (???), etc. There was none of that in my posts. I was trying to help him figure out what was wrong and trying to help him fix it. All you did was ridicule his post and criticize mine. Ridicule without advice offers no help.

    This forum is all about sharing knowledge, experience and helping each other advance. Bushclass alone is a great example of that. I can't begin to guess how much money that would have cost all the members who have taken advantage of it if they had to pay for the lessons. The instructors could have charged for the lessons or kept that knowledge to themselves while sitting back and ridiculing members attempts at learning various skills.

    Instead they chose to share their knowledge with anyone willing to put in the time and effort involved to learn those skills. They also set a standard and required members to push themselves to meet (or exceed) that standard. I don't believe in coddling. I would rather encourage and help someone to improve their skills by sharing my knowledge and experience instead of just ridiculing them.

    Did you ever stop to think that maybe, for the gun in question, that might be about as good a group as you could hope for? I have a NAA 22WMR that won't shoot a decent group at all. I've run many different types of ammo through it and while some were better than others, none of them shot what I would consider to be an acceptable group. A group like the one the OP mentioned isn't too far off from the best you could hope for with it. My 22lr Ruger Single Six is capable of decent groups but it won't touch what my 22lr Ruger MKIII Hunter will do. My 10" 22lr Contender puts them all to shame. Get the picture?

    I know nothing about the gun the OP was using. When accuracy is the goal, the first step is making sure that the gun in question is up to the task. I offered advice and recommended a gun that I know is capable of decent accuracy.

    If you consider that coddling, lying or any of the other excuses you listed, so be it. Your rant might win over some but if anyone honestly looks at the actual posts, none of the excuses you listed apply to this situation. Its a red herring argument meant to win over those unwilling (or unable) to examine and comprehend the facts.

    Trolling is easy and takes next to no effort. Sharing your experience and knowledge in order to help others might take more time and effort but its much more rewarding. Try it the next time you come across someone that needs help.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
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  18. GingerBeardMan

    GingerBeardMan Tracker

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    Update: I had a friend and firearms instructor shoot the MK45. 2 inch grouping at 5 meters. I've seen this man put a 5 .45 through just about the same hole at 25 yards.

    I'd say final answer is right: its a bad grouping*

    *But probably the best this junker can do.
     
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  19. pab1

    pab1 Supporter Supporter Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    That's what I suspected. If you get a 1377 (or any other gun capable of decent accuracy) let us know how it does.
     
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  20. tomme boy

    tomme boy Guide

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    Thats better than 90% of the people around here I see shooting a centerfire pistol.
     
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