two knife pass around

Discussion in 'Edged Tools' started by Jacob, Jul 19, 2017.

  1. Jacob

    Jacob Supporter Supporter

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    Closed for the time being.

    A big thanks to the participants! I'm really exited to hear your thoughts.

    The list so far,
    @Ptpalpha
    @A Seedy Lot
    @NWPrimate
    @vyking
    @MommaJ
    @SmilinJoe
    @EvanStinson
    @gohammergo
    @will52100
    @CharClothed
    @Holmesmade
    @CivilizationDropout




    Im hosting this pass around in the hopes you guys and gals can help me make better knives. I would like to hear what you do and just as importantly don't like about them. there are a few folks I would like to extend an invitation to, otherwise the rules and requirements are similar to most other pass arounds.

    Before I go any further I want to make the following clear. I don't sell knives, this isn't a marketing ploy. its an entirely selfish attempt to make something exceptional. I believe your opinions, knowledge, and perspective can help me do that faster than I could on my own.

    the rules-

    1- be an established member of the forums to participate

    2- use the knives and write up a short review

    3- pay the shipping fee to the next guy/gal on the list

    4- try not to keep them for more than 3 weeks or so. Life happens and this one is flexible.

    5- be brutally honest, you're not going to hurt my feelings. Think of it as part review and part roast.

    6- treat the knives with the same respect you would treat a 10$ mora and 30$ cold steel chopper. I know they're pretty but they're intended to be working knives.

    7- Just say "Im in"

    IMG_2073.JPG.jpeg

    With all that said I would like to extend a few invitations. To the best of my knowledge these folks represent knife makers, collectors, knife nerds (Its a compliment), and folks who spend more time using knives than thinking about them. Im not trying to put you guys on the spot, I understand that it's a commitment and I will not be offended if you decline.
    @Holmesmade @will52100 @Ptpalpha @NWPrimate @A Seedy Lot @Muskett @CivilizationDropout
    ^that list could go on and on. Lots great folks here.

    Thanks in advance.
    Jake
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
  2. NWPrimate

    NWPrimate Supporter Supporter

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    Beautiful work @Jacob . I bet I could have some fun with that big chopper. :) Please put me on the list, but I'd rather not be the first. I'd prefer let some other members play with them while they're shiny and new.
     
  3. USPCompact45

    USPCompact45 Scout

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    And that gentlemen is a review with pictures I'm sure I look forward to.
     
  4. CoolBreeze135

    CoolBreeze135 Scholarly Woodsman Supporter

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    Love the look of that big one! I'll be keeping an eye on this for sure.
     
  5. Lichen

    Lichen Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I take "established member" to mean "supporter" which you are not.
     
  6. Jacob

    Jacob Supporter Supporter

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    You're mistaken, I meant "established" to mean a decent history of participation on the site. If I had meant "supporter" I would have said "supporter".

    As for not being a supporter, I would happily become one if I could figure out how. Goodness knows I've learned more from the folks on this site than any outdoor book I've ever bought. Maybe you could point me in the right direction?

    Edit- found it and... fair enough
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
  7. Ptpalpha

    Ptpalpha Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I'm in. Really looking forward to seeing these two beauties in person! Thank you for the opportunity.
     
  8. MrFixIt

    MrFixIt Old Jarhead Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Looking forward to this.
    I would throw my hat in the ring but I'm in a slow process of moving.
     
  9. A Seedy Lot

    A Seedy Lot Scout

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  10. SmilinJoe

    SmilinJoe Supporter Supporter

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    That chopper looks fun. With the handle shape and forward lanyard hole, cool. Wish I could get out more often to be considered. I understand what you mean and these knives deserve a good workout. Great work sir!
     
  11. vyking

    vyking Supporter Supporter

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    It would be an honor. I'm in.
     
  12. Muskett

    Muskett Scout

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    I do live across the pond, so best I follow from afar. I do like to follow pass arounds.

    First impression is that there has already been a lot of thought put into these two. Way beyond knock something together in the shed, nice work, nice pair.
    The bushcraft knife takes a nod to Ray Mears Bushlore Knife.
    The bolo from Chris Caine Survival knife, especially the handle.
    Might not be specifically to the above, but thats how designs are progressing. Good to see.

    (The bolo looks up to taking on some hard wood action. Thats about as much knife before reaching for an axe. I'm not much of a lanyard user and that hole is right where many a heavy blade fails. Might not be quite so clever a place??? It will all be in how it manages the whack; there are big forces going on. Can it still catch the cut on small springy stuff? Light enough to check the chop and work high up in the air as machete's can?? Only some testing will tell.
    On the bushcraft much is in the grind. Higher Skandi better?? The Terava has a higher one to the Garberg and the former is getting some praise. With a duo then maybe the bushcraft can go a bit finer??)

    All bodes well and looks very promising indeed. I will be watching with interest. Lots of fun to be had. We can't learn without testing stuff and improving on the feedback. ATB
     
  13. Jacob

    Jacob Supporter Supporter

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    @MrFixIt, I would be happy to keep an open ended spot on the list for you. If things slow down for you and you change your mind just let me know.

    @SmilinJoe, just say the word man and ill put you on the list. the wording for rule seven was terrible, its been revised. you're more than welcome to jump in if you want too.
     
  14. MommaJ

    MommaJ Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    I would like to be in but have very little to compare them against as I am new to the world of sharps (i can rate it on comfort in a girl's hand and beginner level work) and I'm not sure I'm established enough.
     
  15. SmilinJoe

    SmilinJoe Supporter Supporter

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    @Jacob, I'd be honored to give them a try. I'm in please. I've not done one of these before so I hope I do your work justice, thank you for the opportunity.
     
  16. Luchtaine

    Luchtaine MOA #22 Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    Not sure how long your list has gotten or how long you actually want it to be but I'd give them a go for sure. I'm in if there's room!
     
  17. Jacob

    Jacob Supporter Supporter

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    Bummer, I didn't realize you were oversees. thanks for sharing your impressions. Ive come to similar conclusions about the lanyard tube in particular. Theres enough flex in the blade that Ive already had the very top of the handle come un-epoxied. the next version will have a mechanical fastener in its place and I'll move the lanyard hole to just above the handle on an oversized thumb ramp. As a safety measure I could take or leave the lanyard but for little wrist flick chops it goes a long way toward reducing hand fatigue. for all-out swinging it doesn't seem to make a difference.

    If I set out to do work I would likely leave the chopper behind in favor of a heavy machete or small axe. Its definitely a niche tool, a little heavy/slow for the springy stuff, a little hard to be swinging next the ground. its versatile but its only great at very few things. lotta fun though. An 1/8" version would be more practical for most purposes but I'm afraid it would rattle your hands mercilessly, this one carries enough momentum to dampen the "shock" pretty well. I would probably pair it with a puukko and/or paring knife.

    The grind angle on the scandi is 26 degrees with an almost imperceptible secondary bevel (very similar to a mora companion hd). Its what I've settled on because there are a lot of hardwoods in my area. For me a higher grind generally means a slightly larger secondary. slightly better performance, slightly longer to sharpen, a toss up really. What I notice the most though is blade thickness, the mora classic #1 is probably one of my favorite knives to use for just that reason.
     
  18. gohammergo

    gohammergo I like sharp things.... Supporter

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    I'd be happy to give them a try. Been a knife guy for pretty close to 50 years now. I've used good ones and crappy ones. :) I'll give a good honest impression and opinion. :)
     
  19. will52100

    will52100 Tracker

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    I'd be honored to be on the list. Like the designs overall, not crazy about the scandi grind, but then never used one much so it'd be a fun experiment for me as well. Don't know what steel or heat treat and don't want to know until testing is over, just want to know if it's "carbon" or "stainless". This would give me a chance to test my knives against another maker and maybe learn something as well.

    Thanks
     
  20. CharClothed

    CharClothed Guide

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    I'm In! Just hope I don't get them mid month cause I wouldn't be able to ship it to the next guy until the start of the next month.
     
  21. Jacob

    Jacob Supporter Supporter

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    Right on everyone! Thanks again, I'm going to close down the list for now and leave an invitation for @MrFixIt, (a really generous guy)@CivilizationDropout (I suspect he's busy at the moment with his little one) and @Holmesmade (who's great advice helped me salvage the chopper)

    First up is @Ptpalpha, drive it like you stole it and don't spare my feelings. I'll try to ship sat morning.

    Thanks again everyone.
     
  22. Ptpalpha

    Ptpalpha Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Sounds great! Bring 'em on!
     
  23. Holmesmade

    Holmesmade Guide

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    @Jacob, you know a crusty, old steel addict like me can't begin to resist an invitation like this! I am most definitely IN and exceedingly grateful for the opportunity!
    Thank you!

    I've been dieing to get a chance to play with that chopper from the first time I saw it!
     
  24. Jacob

    Jacob Supporter Supporter

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    Thank you, the steel is carbon. I can't promise that the particulars won't be thrown around here and there before you get the knives but I'll try not to throw them in your direction.

    As far as the scandi grind goes, I understand your reservations. It's a one trick pony wood working tool IMHO. If you use it primarily for most anything else (and your welcome to) you're likely to be disappointed.

    Easy to sharpen?- technically yeah, but it takes forever

    Abrasion resistance?- nope, it's too acute

    Good slicer?-nope, too thick behind the edge

    Tough? The blade is, the edge isn't

    I love carving, even then the benefits barely out weight the drawbacks. They probably wouldn't if I didn't carry a paring-type knife as a companion blade. At any rate, I'm pretty psyched to hear your take on these knives (and everyone else's for that matter).

    Thanks again.
     
  25. vyking

    vyking Supporter Supporter

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    I have been getting into blades for the last three years. I started with convex and found it acceptable, but a pain to sharpen. I want to saber and modified scandi grind, and have found myself really liking scandi. I've been camping a fair amount this year and scandi has really pulled its weight. Sure I can slice tomatoes paper thin or chiffonade herbs. But it seems to handle any outdoor task I have thrown at it. I have a water stone coming and will start learning how to use it in the. Ext few days. But this is the age old grind argument. What one likes a thousand other hate. I would love to put the small blade though its paces. And I thank you for the opportunity.
     
  26. Luchtaine

    Luchtaine MOA #22 Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    Thanks @Jacob!! I look forward to giving these things a good workout!!
     
  27. MrFixIt

    MrFixIt Old Jarhead Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    @Jacob , thanks for the open invitation but I'll respectfully decline. Just too much going on at the moment and I feel that I would not have the time to do a full review.
    I'm looking forward to everyone's thoughts and impressions on them!
     
  28. MommaJ

    MommaJ Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    Thanks @Jacob for letting me try therm.
     
  29. Muskett

    Muskett Scout

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    Jacob, you are way ahead of the game with great thought on what you are trying to achieve. There are always compromises to be made; put a bias into the design to work better to an environment or particular task. How people use their knives, personal technique, and traditional familiarity, all play a part how people perceive a particular blade.

    Not easy making a "good knife"; takes skill.

    Ring Ding! Hard wood isn't kind to blades. Too thin and springy and the ring ding vibrations sure sting the hand, and the harmonics will pop the handles off. Too heavy they might not vibrate, but they are a swing monster and once committed hard to stop. Hard to use anywhere but down on something. Machetes can be used like a zippy squash racket, the heavy duty billhook like a firm swing tennis racket.
    The Bushcraft is very similar to Ray's first Woodlore. Alan Wood made it in 1987/8??. Ray proudly showed it to me on the range we were teaching him to shoot on. (Funny, I wasn't impressed at the time!) I've come to the conclusion that one design doesn't do it all, everyone needs several blades and more specialised the better to the task. Also a lot is what you get familiar with, used to. All rounders are fine just less efficient, goes with the territory, and you can't always take the full tool box.

    Decisions, decisions. Think your bias in design should do well where ever they go. Good choices. Looking forward to reading the feedback. Be safe all, and have fun.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
  30. gohammergo

    gohammergo I like sharp things.... Supporter

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    Thanks for the opportunity @Jacob . It's a sure way to get real world input on your craftsmanship.:)
     
  31. Brew-Jitsu

    Brew-Jitsu Mora Tribe #100 Supporter

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    Those look fantastic, sir. I will be following this and look forward to seeing what people do with these (obvious) workhorses.
     
  32. Jacob

    Jacob Supporter Supporter

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    I hear you, talking about grinds is sorta like talking about politics. more fun of course. thanks for doing this.

    thats the spirit man, looking forward to your feedback.

    Gotcha, good luck with your move. I hope things go smooth for you.

    Thank you! I think I may have missed your post for an hour or so back when I was making the list. I wanted to tell you that it was not intentional. just a lot going on at that moment.

    you're welcome, and thanks right back at ya.
     
  33. Jacob

    Jacob Supporter Supporter

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    Thanks for the encouragement. I agree completely with your take on compromises, couldn't have said better. the smaller blade definitely has woodlore roots. Its a lot uglier than the original. credit where credit is due, the spyderco bushcraft played a big part in the knifes design as well.
     
  34. Jacob

    Jacob Supporter Supporter

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    That chopper would still be setting on the workbench if you hadn't shared your ideas. I'm glad your on board.
     
  35. Lichen

    Lichen Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I didn't mean to be rude, but at the same time, it worked! Thanks for becoming a supporter!
     
  36. Holmesmade

    Holmesmade Guide

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    Like I've said before, my head is chock full of other people's great ideas! Every once in a while, I get to put them to use!
     
  37. Jacob

    Jacob Supporter Supporter

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    Ha! yeah you got me alright, Its past time really. definitely no hard feelings on my end.
     
  38. Ptpalpha

    Ptpalpha Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    The knives arrived at my door today. Once I put them to work my plan is write up my impressions of them, and post that here in this thread along with pics taken.
    I'm late for dinner already, but my initial reaction when I hefted the chopper was a quiet and respectful "whoaaa!"
     
  39. gohammergo

    gohammergo I like sharp things.... Supporter

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    Nice. Can't wait for my turn! :)
     
  40. Jacob

    Jacob Supporter Supporter

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    There are a few things I neglected to say originally

    1- please be safe

    2- this isn't my image but it reflects how the lanyard is intended to be used. I use three twists. YMMV
    IMG_2091.JPG
    3- my kydex sheets were to small to make a traditional sheath for the chopper, so this one was intended to be temporary. The locking mechanism I came up with is a pain but I would hate to think what that blade could do if it slid out across someone's thigh. Again, be safe and have fun.
     
  41. Madwell

    Madwell Supporter Supporter

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    Those are great looking blades @Jacob. Thanks for putting on this pass around. It takes a brave person to ask for feedback on your work.
     
  42. Ptpalpha

    Ptpalpha Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Got out yesterday and did some chopping with the big competition cutter.
    First, I have to preface this by saying that my review of these two beauties is unfortunately going to be cut short. I've got Saturday and Sunday off, then I'm working the next 14 days straight on 12 hour shifts, and the jobsite is a 2 hour drive one way.
    Yeah.
    I've already relayed this to Jacob with my apologies, and will be shipping the knives to the next participant on Monday (well, my wife will be).
    I'm going to continue testing through the weekend, and post the results Sunday evening.
    But just to whet your appetite, here's some pics of what the chopper can do:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  43. gohammergo

    gohammergo I like sharp things.... Supporter

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    I remember those days all too well. I feel for you! ( But glad I don't have to do that anymore :))

    Good to see you will get a few days with them. :)
     
  44. Ptpalpha

    Ptpalpha Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Morning fun with the chopper. Started off with a treated 4x4, proved two things:
    1. I'm not going to win any cutting competition.
    2. With a firm grip, this blade flat out throws chips.
    [​IMG]

    Battoning a piece of firewood was no challenge at all:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I should mention that since receiving this knife I've done absolutely no edge maintenance, and after everything I've put it through not only is there zero evidence of rolling, chipping, or damage of any kind, it's still extremely sharp. Not quite shaving sharp, but close to it.
    The edge geometry combined with the heat treatment is damned impressive.
    Handle contouring, length, and thickness is perfect. The forward lanyard hole, pioneered by Jim Crowell if I'm not mistaken, is an excellent feature, allowing balanced retention and ensuring that the knife remains underneath your hand even when you open your grip. It's an excellent idea. I first saw it on Browning's Crowell/Barker competition knife, and immediately modified my BK9 to integrate it. It works. The lanyard on Jacob's knife is a bit long for me, taking 4 or 5 wraps to lock it in (I prefer 2), but since it's a pass around it makes sense to leave it long enough for different wrist sizes.
    I've got a few more tests I want to do, but if we're rating the knife, I give it the following marks:
    Balance: 9/10, possibly 10/10
    Size: 10/10 It's the perfect size for what it's made to do.
    Grip dimensions: 10/10
    Edge geometry: 10/10
    Style points: 10/10. It's big, bad, and beautiful.
    OK, this is getting redundant, and it's obvious that I think the knife is a near perfect chopper. I feel under qualified to heap any more praise on it, since I'm not a competitor in the Bladesports challenges. Ken Cardwell is that guy, and I'd love to hear his review on this beast.
    All in all, here's my take on this knife: I'm extremely impressed.
    Extremely.
     
  45. Jacob

    Jacob Supporter Supporter

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    Paul, I *really* appreciate you taking the time and expense to do this. It's great to see it being used and I'm beyond flattered by your assessment. If you don't mind I'd like to ask your opinion on a few specifics. Do you think the handle is too smooth? Would it be better if the blade/handle angle were a little more pronounced (like a kukri)? And would putting a spear point on it interfere with the chopping sweet spot? I would like to continue dialing in the design, what should I do differently next time?

    Man, I feel like kind of a jerk right now. You post a wonderful review and I bombard you with questions. Thanks for letting me pick your brain.

    Jake
     
  46. Ptpalpha

    Ptpalpha Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    No worries brother.
    The handle could be left coarser, maybe stop at 220 or 180 grit, but I almost always wear gloves for chopping, whether with axe or knife. My company provides tight fitting gloves with rubber coated palms ("Pugz" is the brand) that work really well for almost everything. And they're free, which fits my budget, lol.
    But for a gloves or no gloves, universal finish, yes, leaving the micarta grippier would help.
    As for increasing the blade to handle angle, I personally say no, but having never chopped with a kukri I can't compare the two. If you look at what the pros are competing with, you don't see anything resembling a kukri. 90% of them look a lot like yours, although some bear a closer resemblance to the Bowie.
    Now for the tough one, point or no point. Personally, I prefer no point, keeping the knife as a purebred chopper. A point would certainly expand the tasks it could be used for, and while I doubt it would be a detriment to it's chopping ability I question what else you'd be asking this knife to do. In my mind this is a knife built for one thing, and that's chopping, not stabbing. I would certainly be carrying a smaller blade if I was out in the field, to be used for any task requiring a point.
    If you were looking at making and selling these, then a spear point option would be a good idea to offer. If I was asking you to build one for me, it would look just like the one you sent.
    Again, I have to add the "I'm not a professional" disclaimer, these are just the opinions of a guy who's fascination with cutting tools borders on obsession.
     
  47. Jacob

    Jacob Supporter Supporter

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    I hear ya. A point or belly would look odd if nothing else. Hmmm, maybe canvas micarta on the next one. Thinking out loud and taking notes here. Thanks again.
     
  48. NWPrimate

    NWPrimate Supporter Supporter

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    I obviously haven't had a chance to play with the chopper yet, but I wanted chime in a quick point about points. ;)

    I find a pointed tip on a big blade to be very useful. Of course there are workarounds, but two of the reasons that I like a big blade in the woods involve using the tip.



     
  49. Jacob

    Jacob Supporter Supporter

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    Makes sense. If I did add a point it would have to be pretty blunt to to survive the abuse. I was kicking around either a kephart style spear point or something resembling the half round in a typical machete or tracker. From your videos it seems like the kephart might be a little more practical. Aesthetically, the chopper works well as is but looks are way down the list of priorities. A look at the scandi confirms that, ugly little thing. Thanks for chiming in.
     
  50. Ptpalpha

    Ptpalpha Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Dang, good point! (see what I did there?)
    Seriously, those are methods I hadn't thought about. I still prefer the current design, but I can see the merits of the pro-point argument.
    OK, it's Sunday evening, when I predicted I'd be giving my final review.
    Not quite yet.
    I've got one more thing I'd like to tackle, and it's something that can be accomplished after sundown so my work schedule won't impact it.
    I need a couple more days to do it, and I'm playing this one close to the chest until results are in.
    Apologies for the delay, but I'm hoping everyone will agree that it was worth it.
    It's a secret.
    :27:
     

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