Well this is interesting

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by DirtmanDave, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. DirtmanDave

    DirtmanDave Supporter Supporter

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  2. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    943f5ba2345be5d932ae3f8b27e26dd3.jpg Pirate gun!!
    Reminds me of the M79 a Navy SEAL had.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  3. Raymond Eisele

    Raymond Eisele Scout

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    Love my mosin nagant carbine, but full stock please. As for the shorty shotty, a red dot, really?
     
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  4. Chili

    Chili Guide

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    It's actually a grenade launcher, though that makes the sight even a little more silly. :p
     
  5. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    Grenade Launcher
    I dunno. Ask the SEALS. It would not be there if it didn't have a purpose.
     
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  6. BladeScout

    BladeScout Scout

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    Pocket Moisin for a bug out gun? No, no and no....scratch that ...HECK NO! Too many dis-advantages to list.

    AR with Law Tactical folding stock and Pantheon Arms DOLOS takedown barrel over that abomination any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
     
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  7. DirtmanDave

    DirtmanDave Supporter Supporter

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    I don't know...it's kinda cute in a anti-snowflake kind of way.
     
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  8. Wasp

    Wasp DOWN IN DIXIE Supporter

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    Convert it to 7.62x39, thread for a suppressor. Add a post for a field expedient "arm brace", add a picatinny rail with a red dot, and I'd be all over it. :)
     
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  9. BladeScout

    BladeScout Scout

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    Nope. No redeeming features at all. Its an abomination. Try firing it a couple of times. Then fire it again and try to hit something.
    Hang it on the wall as a curio. A howdah would be better than that thing. Just my opinion.
     
  10. Wasp

    Wasp DOWN IN DIXIE Supporter

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    Al Paulson, who did tons of silencer research and wrote three books "Silencer History and Performance" had a mossin cut down like that. His wad converted to 7.62x39, had a suppressor and a full stock. He said "it is scary quiet and can achieve hits to around 100 yards".

    Back then you could get a mossin for about $70 with grease still on it.
     
  11. DirtmanDave

    DirtmanDave Supporter Supporter

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    Just look at it! The redeeming feature is...it will "P" off the anti-2A people!:59::42::4::dblthumb::dblthumb::dblthumb::dblthumb::dblthumb:
     
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  12. Paulyseggs

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    To you. But to someone it's useful.
     
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  13. PMSteve

    PMSteve Old Timey Outdoorsman Supporter

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    But it's COOL!

    Steve
     
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  14. BladeScout

    BladeScout Scout

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    I dont doubt it.
    How ever, there is NO comparison between a full stock Moisin converted to 7.62x39,* fited with a suppressor and running suppressor-friendly loads and that cut down Nagant in its original 7.62x54mmR. No comparison. At all.

    The last thing the cut down one is gonna be is 'scary quiet.'
    Its something often made, when pistols/revolvers werent readily available.
    Could kill at close quarters but not something, one would choose over a pistol or revolver if possible (no dearth of either in the US).
    Accuracy non-existent and nasty recoil.
    https://www.range365.com/gun-history-obrez-cut-down-bolt-actions/


    And yes, they used to be dirt cheap. A buddy bought a bundle of them for work mates.

    * Which btw is an excellent caliber. Not last in a Ranch Rifle for yotes at not unreasonable distances.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  15. BladeScout

    BladeScout Scout

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    Hence the 'just my opinion' part of my post, which you quoted.


    In which theoretical scenario would you find it useful over another firearm?
     
  16. BladeScout

    BladeScout Scout

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    The AR with the Law Tactical stock and the Dolos barrel? Sure:D

    As for the Moisin, as always; to each his own.
    Ill take a Remington TAC14 over that thing and the TAC is only marginally 'better' (both are compromise weapons of course);)
    But people should buy what ever they want for their disposable income.
     
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  17. Paulyseggs

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    Im not here to argue. Take that somewhere else
     
  18. BladeScout

    BladeScout Scout

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    Pardon me? It was a simple question in response to your statement, that it was useful for some.
    Should be simple to answer .... unless of course someone hadnt thought the 'useful' part through.
    Odd to be defensive and confrontational about it. Im out.

    Why even bother.
    Still out ;-)
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  19. perdidochas

    perdidochas Guide

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  20. perdidochas

    perdidochas Guide

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    doubtful. It's a pretty stupid idea.
     
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  21. dial1911

    dial1911 Supporter Supporter

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    Part mosin, but mostly flame thrower.
     
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  22. Wasp

    Wasp DOWN IN DIXIE Supporter

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  23. Wasp

    Wasp DOWN IN DIXIE Supporter

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    Wait....we were comparing x39 and x54? I wasn't comparing. Were you comparing?:33:

    Actually lots of people cut down rifles to suppress, mostly because of the added length when adding a can or integral suppressor. Most of them are just as quiet when maximizing length of barrel to full powder burn (max velocity gained before you're just adding barrel length for the sake of it). Bolt guns are more appealing suppressed because theres no action noise. Why 7.62x39? Because theres a lot of loads which are still surplus, and you can get several factory loaded options in subsonic and other types of bullets as well.

    The biggest reason to do it is simply because you want to and its :42:.
     
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  24. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    The biggest reason to do it is simply because you want to and its :42:.

    What more useful reason does one need than this:7:
     
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  25. DirtmanDave

    DirtmanDave Supporter Supporter

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    Like...why do you climb that mountain?

    Because it's there!
     
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  26. BladeScout

    BladeScout Scout

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    Since you ask me/tag me, Ill answer.
    In the 10th post down, you quote my post about the gun in the OP (which looks to be in the original 7.62x54mmR judging by the clip) and then write about the full stock suppressed 7.62x39. Thats a comparison, since you ask. I agree with your statements in post no 10.

    Not sure, where you are going with this in regards to the extremely cut down gun in the OP but then it dawned on me, that you think the suppressed rifle only has a few inches of barrel like the one in the OP. That is not so.

    But yes, rifles are sometimes/often cut down a few inches to make a rifle with a can more manageable. Ive cut down rifles though not necessarily to accommodate a can. Many modern rifles are (depending on the calibre/rifle) several inches longer than they need to be. This for aesthetics and because market dictates this/customers want it so. Some short factory rifles are just as accurate as their longer barrelled brethren in the same calibre. Again depending on the rifle and/or calibre.

    Often, a few inches cut wont be detrimental to accuracy but there comes a point, where the cutting down of the barrel will have an impact on accuracy. Way, way, way before the chop job in the OP. When you move beyond that point and further, you are left with a gun with non-existent accuracy and a gun, which nobody in their right mind would choose over a revolver or a semi-auto pistol or even more adequate arm in a life or death situation. Full circle back to the gun in the OP. The OP states a gun for a bugout bag i.e. life or death.

    As for the photo of the gentleman from Finland, its important to understand, that the barrel most likely is not cut down to the same length as the gun in the OP but extends a ways into the suppressor. The Finnish REFLEX system work this way. The suppressor works like a sleeve over the (maybe moderately cut) barrel. Some times the barrel is not cut at all except for threads. The aft part sleeved over th barrel is an expansion chamber and the front has baffles. Suppressor does extend forward of the muzzle. Really a nifty way of having a not overly long arm but still retaining adequate barrel length. I repeat, nothing at all like the gun in the OP.
    The accuracy mentioned in your post about the gent from Finland with the full stock suppressed rifle can not be replicated by the gun in the OP.
    [​IMG]

    Even the WWII suppressed De Lilse carbine had an 8 inch barrel inside its long suppressor (double that of the typical cut down Moisins 4 inches) and this in .45acp to boot for short range sentry de-animation.
    [​IMG]

    Also note the integral suppressed versions of the Ruger MKII. You have the can coming up against the receiver. That doesnt mean, that there is only a stub of a barrel. Inside the can is a nice long barrel. You just sleeve the can over the barrel to have a nice short handgun instead of attaching the can to just the first inch of the muzzle or so. in short, a functional useful arm and barrel length for that caliber.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Sure.
    The gun in the OP is useless for a bugout bag/survival situation, as stipulated in the OP and at the very least, nobody with an iota of gun savvy would choose it over a pistol, revolver or even more adequate arm (not referring to you and not saying you are not gun savvy) No dearth of adequate bugout bag arms to choose from in the US.

    But yeah, because Murica and because as @DirtmanDave puts it, cause its there. The heart wants, what the heart wants (not necessarily the brain). As Ive posted above, you should buy, which ever 'fun gun' or plinker you want for your money.

    Shoot, I want a Mares Leg and thats about as useless as the gun in the OP (no pun intended):D
    [​IMG]

    Sry for the lecture.

    Tl;dr dont buy the cut down Moisin for a bugout bag. For a plinker, by all means should you so desire.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
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  27. Beal

    Beal Scout

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    Why????
    50011266_358112148347152_3874989150230806528_n.jpg
    Because. Fireball. Duh... :4:
     
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  28. highlander

    highlander Veni Vidi comedit lardum Supporter

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    Hmmmm maybe fun. Kinda novel. I’d love to try one.
     
  29. Chili

    Chili Guide

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    IDK, I could seem one of them finding a broken sight, and just putting it on there because of the absurdity.. I know it would make me chuckle if I saw a teammate with it.

    Not like you would really need a sight on that.. With no stock and such a short barrel, I would think it's essentially a line of sight, short distance kinda thing.
     
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  30. BladeScout

    BladeScout Scout

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    Holy Hannah, thats a big fireball. Nightvision be gone!:D
    Im on a small screen but tried to enlarge the grainy small pic; somebody actually fired a cut down Moisin at night.
     
  31. Sandcut

    Sandcut Sed ego sum homo indomitus Vendor Supporter

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    Man, we argue about minutiae here on this forum!

    The cut down Mosin is pretty cool! Would I spend money/time on it to buy/make? No. Not my kink. But it is pretty cool!!!

    For those who think it is stupid, one question: "How is this cut down rifle any different functionally than a TC Contender chambered for the same load? Are all Contenders, therefore, also stupid?"

    And yes, it would be an NFA item. So what. $200 plus 6+ months of wait time and it's yours. That should be significantly shorter, but it is what it is.

    And the cut down blooper is just awesome!!!!
     
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  32. BladeScout

    BladeScout Scout

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    I take part of the blame having posted the lengthy post above. At first, I couldnt figure out, why the suppressed Mosin was brought up. Then it dawned on me; it was thought to be sporting an extremely cut down barrel to app four inches like in the OP.
    It was argued that such a suppressed firearm with only a couple of inches to the barrel would be accurate. It of course cant be. I just didnt connect the dots.
    The Finnish gent shooting the suppressed Moisin has a barrel of adequate length with the can sleeved way down over the barrel as per the Reflex system.

    Contenders friggin' rock!:D There are several TC calibres, that I want.....but I wouldnt use a Contender for a bugout bag either as per the OP.
    NB Check out the movie 'Hard Target' for Lance Henriksen and some TC goodness (albeit without a front sight).

    Im a big fan of the original Bloop Tube. Since I cant cant own one, I would have to settle for this for my AR. Dont think, I hadnt thought about buying one:
     
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  33. Wasp

    Wasp DOWN IN DIXIE Supporter

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    I think you are taking the gun in the OP as a "BOB special" WAY to seriously! Anyway, what better way to stay "Grayman" than to have a pistol length bolt gun? I think they ought to do this with a Barrett 50, it'd be awesome and I'd be on the top of the list. How many people do you know with a .50 in their BOB?:rolleyes:


    And I TOTALLY understand how suppressors work, integral suppressors, designs, etc. I do now and have owned a few, shot several, and studied designs and info since my early teens, probably one of the most fascinating things in the firearms world to me actually.


    And there are TONS of designs that are cut down with a longer can, as well as integrals that are slightly cut down and have a can, and several that have longer ported barrels like the one you posted with a can.
    My point was, there's a point where you've reached full powder burn and aren't gaining anything, especially if you're talking about shooting at 100 yards or less. I'm not suggesting we should all go hack up our rifles and have a 308 with a 16" barrel for next deer season.

    Generally I was defending the gun in the OP in jest, and for the "do whatever you want factor :)42:). ;) But that doesn't mean there aren't shorter designs that aren't practical for a lot of shooting, and not all of them look like what most people think of as a classic deer gun grandpa used. Jus sayin.


    One of my favorites, a dream gun actually, is a Ruger 77/357 with a barrel cut down to 12 inches and a Liberty Mystic X 9mm can on it. Ive posted pictures and threads about it several times.

    Here:
    And read these forum pages on the 77/357. Follow member "ptaylor" through the threads.
    He handloads, and eventually he cuts his barrel down to 12" to shorten the length but still enough to stabilize for the suppressor and accuracy.

    Look at those loads for. 357 he loaded. At 100 yards you could cover them with a silver dollar...and he was still dialing it in.
    He used a Liberty Suppressor Mystic X. (My .22 suppressor is from Liberty), and hand loads (see below).

    https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Ruger-77-357/20-434362/

    Ptaylor goes by "peytont" on silencertalk.com

    Another 77/357 suppressed thread about his awesome rifle!
    http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=77685&start=25

    Pretty sure this was his rifle when he was done. Photobucket links are broken now. He has a video somewhere of his shooting it.
    [​IMG]
    These are the bullets he loaded for it. Yep its a .357 Magnum.
    [​IMG]

    Don't be so serious. You're making my head hurt.
     
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  34. BladeScout

    BladeScout Scout

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    In regards to short barrels, you are preaching to the choir:D

    This is my .45-70 and my favorite .308 has a fluted cold hammer forged barrel 19 inches short.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
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  35. Akela

    Akela Scout

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    Sorta like the old inexpensive 22 singleshot rifles that boys used to cut down on both ends to make a handy close-range shooter when chasing the coon hounds at night through the thick stuff, back in the good ole' days. ;)
     
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