What did I buy? LL Bean/Old Town?

Discussion in 'Paddling' started by dcamp, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. dcamp

    dcamp Tracker

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    I bought this LL Bean royalex 16 footer yesterday but know little about it. 34” wide And appears to be a Penobscot but I cannot tell for sure. I cannot find an HIN anywhere. The keel is pretty rough at the Stern, I plan to remove the previous owners repair work and start over. Any and all thoughts and ideas are appreciated. 64BA5FEA-42F6-4FD4-9EFA-4C8F9CC9BA09.jpeg 3626E28F-82DD-4BE4-9C02-E0B6ED33DC53.jpeg
     
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  2. Robedsubset

    Robedsubset Scout

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    It looks like an LL Bean branded Old Town canoe for sure. I believe Royalex is proprietary to Old Town. They sell a Kevlar keel guard that epoxys on that should cover and seal up any front end damage
     
  3. Mikewood

    Mikewood Supporter Supporter

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    Looks like a nice old canoe. Nothing a little rubbing compound and wax won’t fix. Flip her over and take pics of the damage and maybe we can suggest more help. Might need bondo or maybe glass.
     
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  4. GKiT

    GKiT Supporter Supporter

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    Nice looking canoe. Congrats.

    West System G flex epoxy is good stuff and works well with Royalex. It stays somewhat flexible after hardening and that’s what you want in a repair. If you use something stiff like fiberglass/bondo, it may last a long time or it may be in an area that flexes often and it will crack.

    Check for cold cracks that run down from the gunnels wherever there is a screw. This is very common on royalex canoes with wood gunnels especially Mad River like mine. If you have none you are lucky and may not ever have them. Not a huge problem to fix but takes some maintenance. If stored outside in cold temps it’s recommended to loosen or remove some gunnel screws towards the ends. Keep royalex out of the sun as much as possible when storing. 303 Aerospace Protectant makes them look like new and provides some protection. Enjoy it, royalex is hard to beat on a rocky river.
     
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  5. mongo1958

    mongo1958 Supporter Supporter

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    Nice boat. Ditto on the cold cracks - royalex shrinks alot in the real cold - wood does not. take the bow and stern screws out, maybe 6 screws back. put the screws in a zip lock and tape the bag to a thwart or you will be running around 6 months later looking for the screws - experience
     
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  6. dcamp

    dcamp Tracker

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    It looks as though the last owner tried to cover some deep gouges and scrapes with some type of liquid plastic, followed by spray paint. After just a few minutes in the sun, whatever that stuff is, easily peels off to reveal the real damage.

    Does anyone have an idea what year is canoe E0EDDA5F-C216-4F6D-AF7C-4853D1B43885.jpeg AFD82265-6C27-4EC3-BA12-4CD88D3B1710.jpeg 1F345655-54B0-4147-B1A9-FA3235DD7CD4.jpeg 280CD292-E46D-4032-B2E3-0030F417F82D.jpeg was made?
     
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  7. Mikewood

    Mikewood Supporter Supporter

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    No idea when it was made but once you get the bad patch and all cut out and sanded down some bondo and sand paper should fix her right up good as new.
     
  8. dcamp

    dcamp Tracker

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    Deeper than I expected but certainly not that wide. DCFC63B3-C186-4223-893F-5D24E227352F.jpeg
     
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  9. Bad Little Falls

    Bad Little Falls Guide

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    The old burn it and plastic bag trick, yeah not so much.
     
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  10. RobbieinME

    RobbieinME Scout

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    It looks like a Mad River by how the wood is done and if the painter hole is factory.
     
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  11. GKiT

    GKiT Supporter Supporter

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    Agreed, the construction looks exactly like my Mad River.
     
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  12. dcamp

    dcamp Tracker

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    Thanks very much!
     
  13. Bridgetdaddy

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    Looks like a great boat and well worth the work of fixing her up.
     
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  14. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    Yep, the shallow v hull screams Mad River. Most likely an Explorer.

    Nix on the bondo. That damage goes clear into the foam center layer, so you need some structural repair. You will need G-flex epoxy and some fiberglass cloth (not mat!). Some might suggest doing it with a Kevlar felt skid plate kit, but that won't be as strong, IMO.

    Start with everything as clean and smooth as possible. Don't use acetone, as it will dissolve the exposed foam. Alcohol will do. Laying the glass on a bias (weave crossing the keel line at an angle) will help it conform to the shape of the stem. Cut the glass so it overlaps the damage by at least a couple inches. Mask the area about a quarter inch outside the edge of the glass. If the glass doesn't lay flat at the edges when you wet it out, you can either make relief cuts or tape some release fabric over to hold it down while setting up. For this repair, I'd give it a couple layers of glass. Make the second layer slightly smaller than the first, for a tapered edge. Apply it after the first layer is set up at least tacky, but not more than a day later.

    I like to add a pigment to the smoothing coats of epoxy for UV protection. My favorite is graphite powder. It doesn't take much. Don't worry about minor irregularities in the surface of the repair. The important thing is for the glass/epoxy matrix to make full contact with the hull material for the most strength.

    That Explorer looks worth the effort. Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  15. snapper

    snapper Guide

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    Glad that others here think it's an "Explorer" as that's what I thought as soon as I saw the initial photo. If indeed it is, the canoe is definitely worth the effort to fix up and get it paddling again. I was lucky enough to be gifted an old Explorer that needed new gunwales and some other minor work to get it back on the water. It was well worth the effort and the canoe has been used on many trips. I've always appreciated how it handles with a load; especially in large wind & wave conditions.

    That's all for now. Take care, best of luck with your repairs and until next time...be well.

    snapper
     
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  16. dcamp

    dcamp Tracker

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    Thanks for the advice! I will update with pictures as I work through it.
     
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  17. William Bell

    William Bell Supporter Supporter

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    I think it’s a Mad River also due to the end caps an royalex was not proprietary . Should be a good canoe , check for cold cracks as others have mentioned. Good luck and everyone have a great 4 th.
     
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  18. mongo1958

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    agree with kevlar mat and g-flex. best epoxy. Research on surface prep prior to epoxy. Learn about optimum temperatures...Deep damage so you can fix it or really screw it up. I would call mad river or the people at rutabaga - most boat guys love to talk about fixing boats. Good luck
     
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  19. FreeMe

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  20. dcamp

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    Thanks to all of your suggestions I managed an adequate patch job(West Systems G5 is great stuff) and got out on the water this past weekend.
    Mixed the epoxy with cabosil to fill void in the foam and then followed with 6 oz cloth. It took 3 applications of epoxy to wet out the cloth fully

    Really like this canoe.
    FFC05AA4-F7D6-48F2-A65C-E4EA0F1D7070.jpeg
     
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  21. dcamp

    dcamp Tracker

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    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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  22. Scotchmon

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    Looks like your repair should do nicely!
     
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  23. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    Good looking repair! You'll want to give it some paint to protect the epoxy from UV.
     
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  24. roadwarrior

    roadwarrior Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I have the Kevlar skid pads on my Old Town Tripper and they help a lot.
     
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  25. dcamp

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    $219 for a skid plate kit?? I paid $270 for the canoe. Is there a cheaper alternative?
     
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  26. hillst1

    hillst1 Supporter Supporter

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  27. dcamp

    dcamp Tracker

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  28. roadwarrior

    roadwarrior Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I don't know, I bought them 30 years ago.
     
  29. mongo1958

    mongo1958 Supporter Supporter

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    looks good, how are the edges? What is good about glass, if you bash it you can pick out the big chunks and re coat. keep an eye to see if water gets behind it. have fun
     
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