What is the need for a break down rifle

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by wvridgerunner, May 16, 2019 at 11:30 PM.

  1. wvridgerunner

    wvridgerunner BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    First off I am not against a take down rifle as I own a couple. Search older rifles and they also bring a premium price. I see the need back in the day. A train or bus ride for a hunting trip. In this day and age you are not carrying a gun as carry on. And a model T did not have much storage space.Then there is special optic issues to mount on the barrel for best repeatable accuracy. For the same reason the sight radius is shorter for open sights. Althought I have good results with removable rifle mounts I prefer to only rely on this at the shooting bench. I have found I only break mine down for cleaning or testing or practice. I have been considering buying a take down storage pack for my PC 9. But then I think would I ever use the pack. I carry my fire arm when in the field for hunting or woods walking. I am not a fan of taking the rifle out of a pack assembly it going for a walk or hunt and then breaking it down to place back in the pack. A gun case seems more feasible to me. Again this not meant to put them down I just like to hear input on possible uses that I maybe missing out on. I have supplies coming to mount a red dot in place of the rear sight on the barrel of my ruger PC 9.
     
  2. 08H3

    08H3 God, Family and Freedom Vendor Supporter

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    Idk, I rather like the ease of transport and use of my 10/22 take down, and with the tenon adjust corrected notice little to know impact difference with my reflex sight mounted on the reciever
     
  3. actiondiver

    actiondiver Tracker

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    Out of sight, out of mind. A good thing when people are watching. There are plenty of people that are willing to victimize a man with a carbine. Obviously thieves that see you come and go with and without your carbine, and enter your home, camp, RV, hotel, car, etc to steal it.

    But there are also bureaucrats and law enforcement that are more than ok to rain on your liberty in many jurisdictions across the country and world. Imagine the screaming nosey Antiguan harpy calling the police about the man with a gun. Sure you may be legally in the clear, but why not mitigate the headache before it starts?

    Additionally, a smaller package fits in smaller spaces like personal aircraft or 4wheeler boxes, and such better.

    Last, but not least they are simply cool! It’s kind of like a fine mechanical watch or a classic hotrod. They are outdated, but many people still appreciate them and pay top dollar. To some people, this would include all guns, after all they’d argue you can buy meat and call cops for protection services.
     
  4. RocketBoy

    RocketBoy Guide

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    They are easy to pack, easy to carry in an SUV or even a car. I have a Ruger 10/22 Takedown. It's an interesting design. I've replaced the OEM stock with Magpul version, lots more storage. And, it makes a good little gun even better. I suppose ultimately for me it's the novelty.

    b/r

    RB
     
  5. Wasp

    Wasp Supporter Supporter

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    Because you can pack it and use it if and when you need it. If you want to leave it assembled then okay, but if you ever wanted to pack it and its not a pack rifle you usually have some less than appealing options. There are people that take down rifles like the Trapper for packing.
    Broken down you can fit it in your pack, bug out bag, in the canoe/kayak, in and out of the truck, plane, four wheeler, etc easier without worrying about snagging or damage.

    My favorite part about it is its completely discreet in packed form. To and from your truck or if you want to not leave it in the vehicle.
    I ride a motorcycle, often to the range. Its only fifteen miles to dads property or the outdoor range. I don't really care what people think, but it would be less to worry about if there was just a backpack on my back. Jus sayin.

    Most takedown rifles are intended for "short range" anyway. A three inches shorter sight radius isn't going to hurt that much by having the sights mounted on the barrel. So, if the rifle has a 16" barrel then it has 4x better sights than a pistol with 4" barrel? Ive also read and heard from several people that have the Ruger and if the barrel is adjusted correctly there shouldn't be much issues with accuracy.

    If they made a takedown bolt gun it would be great too, but there are several good options that work well.
     
  6. wvridgerunner

    wvridgerunner BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    Yes I agree with your comments on the accuracy. I have had my PC 9 apart several times and the point of impact has never changed but the sights are on the barrel which makes that part optimal. Same with my marlin 39 lever gun.
     
  7. wvridgerunner

    wvridgerunner BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    I get the out of sight out mind thing. And that is a good point for motorcycle, ATV, snow machine travel. But for protection having it broke down and in a bag added a lot of steps to get to ready aim fire. I guess a hand gun would hold them off then duck for cover for assembly of more fire power.
     
  8. wvridgerunner

    wvridgerunner BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    I have 2 10/22’s and a 10/22 magnum. I have looked quite hard at the 10/22 take down. When the ruger PC 9 came out I had to have one and if there was a option for a none take down model I would have paid extra for a take down model so I am a take down fan. I like the Magpul stock design were it goes in and out of storage in one piece. I would guess that would reduce the fumbling around and possible tents a dings.
     
  9. wvridgerunner

    wvridgerunner BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    I Agee with almost every item you posted they are all good points. And I do respect your gun knowledge from all your gun post. Very informative and I do appreciate your response to this tread.

    My opinion differs on a trapper packing a rifle in a pack. Even though a lot of take down lever guns are referred to as trapper rifles. My feeling is that a trapper on this trap line would only put his rifle down long enough to set a trap or remove and animal from one. He would be hunting in between sets.

    Second item is sight radius ( or distance from front rear sight ) I believe it is a hugh difference with open sights. Placing a sight at the rear of a 10/22 action nearly doubles the sight radius.
    The first time I realized the importance of sight radius was with the claimed Winchester 52 being the most accurate open sight target rifle. It came factory with a 28 inch barrel and the longest sight radius by more than two inches. But when the rifles were fitted with scopes the accuracy differences became a lot closer.

    I am also of the opinion that a 4” barrel revolver would be pretty close in accuracy as a 7” barrel if they had an equal sight radius.
     
  10. Wasp

    Wasp Supporter Supporter

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    Thanks. I'm no expert, there are plenty of people on here that know as much or more about firearms as I do, and everybody that likes guns ever stops learning.


    No I didn't mean "Trappers", like Winchester Trappers (not a person). I meant I've seen people take Trappers, as in the Winchester Trapper, down for a more compact carry. My point was, although its already short, to pack it since its not a pack rifle you have to go through some pita and undo the rear stock screws which is less than an appealing option.
    [​IMG]

    As far as the extended sights, a lot of Ruger 10/22s for instance have an 18.5" barrel, same as their takedown. The sights have always been on the barrel and in the same location on either model. Unless you buy another model that's shorter or doesn'thave sights of course.
    In fact a lot of rifles have front a d rear sights on the barrel including marlins and others.

    Ruger takedown and non takedown models\/
    [​IMG]

    To continue my what I was getting at, I can't imagine what 3 or even 5 inches more in sight radius would really do on a rifle like this. If you are using open sights you probably aren't going to be trying to shoot for 2" groups at 100 yards with it. (Unless you were on the bench maybe)
    Shooting 10 to 50 yards with open sights would be pretty common, and people do that with 1022 sights all the time just like they come.

    When I mentioned the pistol I was saying that a rifle like this gives you appx a 16" sight radius, which is 3-4 tims as much as any 4" pistol. 4x4=16. :)
     
  11. wvridgerunner

    wvridgerunner BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    Yeah I’m with you on the distance thing And guns designs and potential options have come along way. I am excited about most new offerings.
     
  12. actiondiver

    actiondiver Tracker

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    Mine is only broken down during storage or transport. I’m not concerned with needing to get it in action as a pistol is ready always and an AR15 At home and my usual afield.

    My 1892 takedown and model 39a are my relaxing in the woods guns. Of course, if that relaxing time is interrupted with threat to my life or limb, they are diligently readied as soon as I arrive at my destination and would be pressed into service.

    Really there is no reason not to have the takedown option, other than cost.
     
  13. Tangotag

    Tangotag Field Gear Junkie Bushclass I

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    The word "Need" in relation to firearms is an anti-gunner term.
    People politically give their rights away with this kind of nonsensical talk.
     
  14. PeterCartwright

    PeterCartwright Guide

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    My only take-down is a 10/22, a Christmas present which I dearly love. The take-down feature is just cute. But I'm still Jonesing for Ruger's take-down 9X19 carbine. Seems to me a firearm designed for emergency social purposes benefits a lot more from this feature. For example, picture a traveling couple who may stay at a motel. The take-down carrying case (save for the scarlet RUGER!!! emblazed on the side) arguably looks a lot less obtrusive on a luggage trolly than a full-sized gun case...at least it seems so to me.

    PC
     
  15. Park Swan

    Park Swan Maker Vendor

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    I have no use for one right now, but seeing people post ARs that fold into a daypack makes me smile anyway.
     
  16. Wasp

    Wasp Supporter Supporter

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    A stitch remover can take care of that Ruger emblem. Or a patch.
     
  17. PMSteve

    PMSteve Old Timey Outdoorsman Supporter

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    Dude! Because they're COOL!

    Steve
     
  18. akbound

    akbound Guide

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    Pretty much as has already been stated ; it allows more easily for discreetly carrying into and out of places without drawing unneeded attention. Easier transport in small and/or cramped and unusual spaces. And doesn’t necessarily “scream” gun to airport baggage handlers like a full length hard case would, and thus is somewhat less liable to be stolen.

    And then I suppose for some of us there is kind of the “neat factor” of having a takedown!;)
     
  19. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Guide

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    Having a take down is NOT about fast deployment... That's what you have a side arm.

    CW
     
  20. GKiT

    GKiT Supporter Supporter

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    I would agree that they are neat. On older guns, the take down option was an upgrade and often coupled with other “deluxe” features. They make a more desirable collectible now for sure. I think having the fanciest and higher grades of firearms has always been an interest for some buyers. The elegant ways they made them “take down” we’re pretty intelligent and it’s the kind of thing I can image someone would have liked to have show to his friends in a hunting camp. The train trips, pack trips and other transportation issues may not apply as frequently now in terms of needing a take down but I think people’s fascination and love for mechanical things and beautifully engineered things never really went away.

    Maybe not a plastic stocked 10/22 though, there’s not much elegance in that :D
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019 at 1:07 PM
  21. marbleman

    marbleman Supporter Supporter

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    If you like the PC9, you would really like the PCC.
     
  22. MAD Punty

    MAD Punty Supporter Supporter

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    It's primarily for discreet carry. A long skinny case screams "GUN!". Anything under 24 inches or so doesn't draw attention.

    Also, a take down makes a pretty good truck gun. Easier to stash, and again a small case doesn't scream "GUN!" to anyone who see it through the window.
     
  23. jstert

    jstert Scout

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    marlin papoose 22lr, or a rossi youth single shot shotgun in your favorite gauge/bore, humbly fits in a gym bag, secured, saying nothing to nobody, as it rides in your trunk. not tactical but lawful (someplaces better with a hunting license) just about anywhere. what’s not to like?
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019 at 2:09 PM
  24. A Seedy Lot

    A Seedy Lot Hobbyist Hobbyist Supporter

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    I have carried a Handi rifle in 444 marlin broken down in my backpack on the search for elk while hiking with a friend. The elk numbers are low around here so i figured why carry a rifle on my shoulder for a 10 mile hike in the mountains, if i saw fresh sign or scent i would have deployed the rifle and started hunting. I have also carried the rifle in my backpack while transporting it to hunting grounds by bicycle through a network of private roads, i did not want to be hassled so why not backpack carry it in the broken down form until i reached leagal hunting grounds.
     
  25. Aspencreek

    Aspencreek Tinder Gatherer

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    My interest in takedown rifles is similar to some of the others - I like the ability to do other activities like hiking, biking, fishing, while being discrete and not having a visible firearm for anyone to see. Also found that when riding it is much easier to carry a takedown of some form in a backpack versus having a rifle slung across my back. I've done that, but after a while it always ends up rubbing or poking my back, plus then I have to find another place to secure the stuff that would also be in a backpack.
     
  26. Wasp

    Wasp Supporter Supporter

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    Well its quicker than running to the truck or home for your AR. :)
     
  27. RocketBoy

    RocketBoy Guide

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    True. But, if I'm in trouble with a four or two legged predator I don't want to be assembling a firearm while trying to keep from dying. When things go wrong, it happens in miliseconds. This is not a primary self-defence weapon.

    b/r

    RB
     
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  28. Wasp

    Wasp Supporter Supporter

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    LOL. I wasn't suggesting telling a BG hold on while I put together my gun. Of course use your sidearm.

    It is capable of being a primary at home or in the woods, as well as possible urban environments depending on the situation though.
     
  29. P40

    P40 Supporter Supporter

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    I agree with many reasons above. Plus two more...

    One practical plus for many take downs I have seen is an added ease of cleaning the firearm's barrel and sometimes the receiver area as well.

    My second is, I like to have my 10/22 take down (w/magpull stock) in my back pack sometimes, when I go out deer hunting with my primary rifle, a 308 win. On the way back the rabbits come out to play and the 10/22 does too.
     
  30. wvridgerunner

    wvridgerunner BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    My intentions are genuine to find the groups uses for a take down carbine that I already bought. I have gotten some good input from this discussion. Were I live guns do not need to be in a case as long as they are not loaded in a vehicle. They do have to be a wrapped in something at a minimum after dark. We can open carry and concealed carry with no permit if 18 years of age. So I don’t take down my 870, 1100, 1187 or HR take down shoot guns when traveling nor do I take down my AR’s, AK’s or SKS take downs. I would be interested in your thoughts on the benefits of carrying a rifle in a small case other than concealment I get that part
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019 at 12:08 AM
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  31. BradGad

    BradGad Supporter Supporter

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    So... who here has actually needed one?
     
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  32. wvridgerunner

    wvridgerunner BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    I agree I own a couple and really enjoy them. Just added a vortex red dot in place of the rear sight this evening on my PC 9 not more than 2 hours ago.

    0545F87C-07E3-4369-8299-5FF61B552D01.jpeg

    I plan to try and add a rear sight and raise the front sight for co witness.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019 at 12:09 AM
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  33. wvridgerunner

    wvridgerunner BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    Is that the older police version?
     
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  34. Wasp

    Wasp Supporter Supporter

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    Thats its designation, but it was sold to civilians as well.
     
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  35. wvridgerunner

    wvridgerunner BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    Yeh the bike, motorcycle, or ATV are good points. So when in your pack do you just wrap a jacket or something around the separate piece so they don’t rub against each other.
     
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  36. wvridgerunner

    wvridgerunner BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    Yeh for cleaning the action it is a big plus.
     
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  37. wvridgerunner

    wvridgerunner BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    Yeh, I saw a couple on gunbroker I was looking at it and the marlin camp 9 and camp 45. That would be neat it uses 911 mags. All 3 of those were going for north of $ 700 then the new ruger came out. I think I got it for $ 419 through Rural King farm supply on line store. If you have not checked them out you should. They have some good deals on guns at times. I was in the store today and they have a Springfield M1A1 in black composite for less than $1300. I’m waiting for a deal on a wood national match. Probably a few years away maybe a retirement present to my self. That sounds like a good goal.
     
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  38. CaliforniaCanuck

    CaliforniaCanuck Guide

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  39. Paulyseggs

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    Storage and traveling.

    I drive a small car, our "family" car is slighty bigger. I can tuck that takedown in a small corner and go.

    Another thing is concealment to and from places. I've gone hunting, had to stop at Walmart or something, and hid the broken down long gun under my coat because I did not want to leave it in my car. I'd have no issues going on public transportation like that either. Or if you don't want people in your buisness when you goto the range.

    Broken down guns fit it alot more bags that dont give away whats inside.
     
  40. CaliforniaCanuck

    CaliforniaCanuck Guide

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    That pretty much sums it up!

    I suppose where you live and how close your neighbors are could be a factor.

    If I lived on a ranch or bigger property I might not care but I live in the city with neighbors on all sides. I prefer to keep that in a gun owner private and a take-down makes that easier to do.
     
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  41. 66drifter

    66drifter Guide

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    growing up there were any number of full sized fire arms hanging in the back windows of pick ups on racks in our high school parking lots as well as up on the square(weren't no durn'd walmarts back then)

    and quite a few of us had them in a case on the back floorboards or in the trunk

    and none of us ever locked our vehicles

    back then and today a take down sure was/is handy when packing for 2-wheeled adventures and marine adventures where no weather protection is available(not a statement on hunting needs)

    our single shot shotguns broke down into 3 pieces and we had a factory made case for them

    our pump shotguns(mine was a 1897 12 bore) broke into 2 pieces and we had factory cases for them

    our plinkers could be broken into 2 pieces and we had factory cases for them

    they were simply easier to carry on a bicycle, bus, train or plane

    today the take downs simplify hauling in a dry bag for weather and water sports issues

    this had nothing to do w/ concealment back when

    times have changed and issues are different today

    RYOR (ride your own ride)

    HYOT (hike your own hike)

    CYOL (carry your own load)

    make sure you know the rules and avoid becomming a statistic
     
  42. Aspencreek

    Aspencreek Tinder Gatherer

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    Jacket could work. I just put them in a small lightweight cotton sack (kind of like pillowcase material) to keep them from rubbing and to keep the bulk in the backpack down to a minimum.
     
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  43. CaliforniaCanuck

    CaliforniaCanuck Guide

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    I have a H&R single 20 ga specifically because I can break it down for motorcycle backcountry use.

    If I could make all my long guns take-downs I probably would!
     
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  44. Wasp

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  45. Wasp

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  46. CaliforniaCanuck

    CaliforniaCanuck Guide

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    I talked my friend into buying one in 45 LC. Absolutely beautiful!!!

    I have trouble deciding between 357 mag and 30-30 but one day I would like to get one.

    To me they are one of the most classy and elegant centerfire rifles out there!
     
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  47. Wasp

    Wasp Supporter Supporter

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    .357/.38 come 50 rounds to the box, range ammo is less than $20 a box, not much more than 9mm for .38 if you find them on sale. Wide range of weights, two different cartridges, .357 2000 fps +/-, cartridge sharing with handgun. I'm fine with a 30/30, but that right there is a very convincing argument.
     
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  48. marbleman

    marbleman Supporter Supporter

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    The Ruger PC9 was introduced in 1996 (Police Carbine). The Ruger PCC was introduced in 2017 (Pistol Caliber Carbine). I have a PCC, and like it very much. It uses Glock/Ruger magazines, and I have some Glock magazines already. The need for breakdown? This one's not available in a non-breakdown, and I like it. Packed up it's convenient for carrying, but my woods scenarios are safe from predators. Ruger recently released a .40 version, as well.
     
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  49. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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  50. Wasp

    Wasp Supporter Supporter

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    I do what I can to bring you cool stuff, but you don't have to get all mushy on me.
     
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