Discussion in 'Other Skills' started by Knifecraft, Jun 13, 2015.
Just curious what others pace counts are? I'm right at 70, what's yours?
Stupid question, how do you calculate you pace count?
It's for more or less accurate distance for more precise navigational purposes. You count as you walk, keeping track with beads to keep track of kilometers covered.
It's a good skill but I've found that for my less than precise navigational methods, I simply use time and correct for terrain. Even when trying to find a specific point, I'm generally within a couple hundred yards and that's good enough for me most of the time.
You can use a GPS to give you an idea of how far you typically travel on different terrain, but it does take a bit of experience to get good at this. Counting paces works pretty well right away and is pretty simple.
Not stupid at all... Your pace count is taken over a known distance of 100 yards, or you can use meters if you choose. You count every time your left or right hits the ground, I use my left so I'll go with that for my explanation. Lead off with your right foor and count every time your left foot hits the ground over the known 100 yard distance, and that is your pace count. Hope that made sense.
Might have to stop by the soccer field and figure it out. Thanks! I know with a loaded pack I move at about 2mph
It's more dependent on your stride, and leg length than your speed.
if I could count past 12 I would be happy to tell you. I think I calculated one time, with a map and a watch that over uneven yet not mountainous terrain, I average about 1.8 miles per hour with pack.
I think I am winning a FITBIT from a contest at work. If I do, I will calculate
Been so long since last did it but its something around 65
Avg. 62 0n level ground.
As an archer, I've nearly perfected the 1 yard pace.
What does that mean?
I pace in chains. 12 1/2 paces per chain. 62 1/2 per tally. 4 tallies in 1/4 mile.
1 step, 1 yard. Very handy to the longbow hunter setting up an ambush.
66 paces for 100m, w/pack. On level ground, if I'm not too tired. Unless we are experiencing orthopedic difficulties that day. Which seems to be most days lately. To put it another way, I'm a good guesser.
72...which is 50 inches.....normal easy walk. tired...uphill...downhill....it changes.
I am 23 steps per chain. so roughly... 33.3 per 100ft or 100 per 100m.
65 or there abouts for 100 yards.
'Course thats rested with no heavy load on even ground.
68 as of the last land nav course I was on.
Old fashioned way, you learned what your actual distance was in feet per double pace. Mine was 5.5 feet or 66 inches per double pace, or 5,500 feet per thousand paces.
(Roman milia or one thousand paces is the basis of our "mile" at 5, 280 feet per mile)/ (5.28 feet/ 63 inches per pace average for an old Roman Legionaire.)
I did not know that. Thank you
Same here, only I'm 11.5 paces per chain.
I wondered if they still teach that in the forestry biz. I thought they may have completely gone to the dark side (metric). I'm 6'4" but my pace is short in the woods due to the brush and debris.
64 last time I checked, average level ground.
Chains and tallies were week 1 in my studies, and there was a refresher every semester. Some people just could get the hang of remembering numbers and conversions. I can make 12 paces in open ground. 11 paces in moderate regen full of whips.
56 left paces for me and my pack on flat ground 54 down hill and 60+ uphill. people always look at me funny when I tell them that.....just like they do when I tell them im a 35.5" minimum draw length. I should've been a yeti.
The most accurate way to calculate it is to get a 100 meter cord, and string it as straight as possible through the woods. My pace count off trail with a loaded pack is 55, up or down hill. Flat open ground is not a very real world pace count.
It's an affective navigation tool, but it's not very practical for me personally. It's much easier to count paces in the dark, during the day it's very hard for me to concentrate on my count.
Your pace count should be an average taken on level ground, on upward incline and downward incline.
Your steps are shorter going up and longer going down.
Also, if you really want to get "technical" about it, do it with the pack and normal weight load you usually carry.
65 over 100 Meters and 59 over 100 Yards, both at 2.6 mph.
If I kick up my speed over 3 mph, they both drop 3-4 Paces.
This is all on flat ground.
Level ground: 65. I should probably re-calculate my pace count. I am embarrassed to say it was approximately 33 years ago that I calculated pace counts for a variety of conditions. Funny you should bring this up. My wife recently saw my Ranger beads. Why not use a GPS?, she asked.
1.543×10^16/parsec ... +/- 2
Don't your pace change when you have your gear on your back or is it still about the same. If it's different you well need to do both then with and without your gear.
. Prov 27 : 17
67 paces for 100 meters for me. I teach land nav for NYS Homeland Security to law enforcement agencies and SAR. The only reason I cover pace count is that is in the course syllabus. Otherwise I dislike it. It is fine for distances of a (very) few hundred meters, but for me time is a much better measure, especially for longer distances. I look at a course on a topo map and have enough experience to say to myself: "I think that will take me 20 minutes" ( or whatever) based on distance, terrain, my load and generally how I feel at the moment. With time and experience you develop a fairly accurate way of estimating speed and time for any distance. It is a very dynamic process, subject to change by a few minutes here and there depending on actual conditions. Usually I nail it within a couple of minutes after get going for a short way. it is a good way to catch errors in navigation as well. If I have reached my time an I do not recognize where I am, then something is wrong. If I arrive "early" then something is wrong too. Figure out what is wrong before proceeding and getting into trouble.
My biggest complaint with pace count is that concentrating on accurate counting numbs your mind from thought about anything else. Sure, use ranger beads or transfering pebbles from pocket to pocket makes it easy to keep count by 100's of meters. but it is all too easy to lose count in between. Ever try to cary on a conversation with a partner while counting? It is not easy to be thinking about terrain observation while keeping accurate count.
Here is an excerpt from the training course:
Walk the Line
•Measure pace count of at least 100 measured meters in the various types of travel terrain
•Count natural length paces (e.g. every left foot) over the distance, average over several trials on a measured 100m course
•Count # of paces to cover distance of 100m per varied terrain type
•Use pace beads or transfer pocket stones to keep count of every passing 100 meters
Accuracy Factors with Pace Counting
•Distracts concentration from observational nav & terrain following
•Communicating with others while keeping count is almost impossible
•Slope - Pace lengthens on a downslope, shortens on an upward grade
•Wind - Head wind shortens the pace length and a tail wind increases it
•Surface - Sand, gravel, mud, snow, ice, etc. will shorten the pace length
•Precipitation - Snow, rain, or icing reduce pace length
•Vegetation - Heavy brush considerably shortens pace
•Obstacles - Frequently altering course shortens pace, increases distance
•Clothing - Excess clothing and boots with poor traction shorten pace length
•Visibility - Poor visibility, such as in fog, rain, or darkness, shortens pace
•Fatigue - Reduces pace length
•Pack weight – a heavy load reduces pace length
68 for 100 yards
I also prefer to use time to estimate
My pace is 2mph on flat easy trails
I tried pace counting
In emergency could be useful but for recreation it drives me nuts
Cant think of anything else such as what your having for dinner cant marvel and enjoy whats around you, mind is focused only on counting for hours at a time
I use my pace count and compass only when I don't have a map.
I record my pace, heading and time traveled. With that info I can make a map on the ground with sticks and
shoot a return heading to my starting point. Or retrace my tracks to return to my starting point.
Also if running a primitive trap line without a gps, it will save you countless hours trying to find traps.
I hike alone so I don't have a distraction like Yknpdlr pointed out.
I pace count a lot to give me something to work on while hiking.
Also I have modded my pace beads to do kilometers and statute miles.
Like Yknpdlr I also use terrain association but try to practice all forms of Navigation.
69 paces for 100 meters on flat ground with a 25 lb pack. I've tried to use time instead of paces, but I usually get distracted in the woods when hiking alone. "Hey, look...Birch bark! Let's collect some!" or "Wow, look at all of those fresh deer tracks!" Maybe carrying a stopwatch would work better for me.
Wouldn't the same thing happen while trying to keep pace count? Was that last count 45 or 75 before I saw that snake? Did I forget to transfer a bead or a stone on the last 100 meter count?
I do just fine with my wrist watch. "I expect to be at the stream crossing in 25 minutes from now." If that does not happen within a couple of minutes (plus or minus. either way, early or late, both circumstances are important), I stop to figure out why. It is relatively easy to add time outs for distractions along the way. It's a vey dynamic process that can and should be adjusted for actual conditions.
I have no doubt that using time instead of pace count can be very accurate. Perhaps it is something I should practice more. I can see how it might be better over longer distances.
A more useful distance for me in the past for a occupation was how many paces in 100 feet. For me it was 13 1/2.
58 on level ground with a 20 pound pack
61. I was doubtful when I first learned how to do a pace count. I'm still kind of amazed how accurate it is.
60 but prefer to establish a timed pace and then measure distance traveled using my watch.
My lawn is 25 meters and I count my pace when mowing (sometimes). Reminds you how easy it is to lose count. Also while mowing I will look at different known distances to remind myself how to visually range distances.
Since it is such a pain to keep count I would like to learn how to use a cadence or song to track distance. So a verse would match ## steps and # verses would equal a 100 meters.
A different method of timing for distance (without a watch)
History of Voyageurs
A stop was made for a few minutes each hour to allow the men to have a pipe. This event was so important that distances came to be measured in pipes: 3 pipes might equal 15 to 20 miles of travel. A 32 km lake would be measured as 4 pipes or 4 hours of travel.
I paddle a marathon voyageur canoe, but don't smoke, so this method won't work for me.
I wish I knew. I bought a navigation kit from ITS Tactical with the supplies to make your own custom pace count bead lanyard. I've never found myself blessed with the opportunity to test it in a graduated setting.
I'd love to see the entire course syllabus or any other course materials if you're willing and able to share a PDF.
Sorry, the course belongs to the National Center for Security and Preparedness and the New York State Division of Homeland Security & Emergency Services. I do not have the power or authority to publicly release it. The course is free to take if you are a member of NY Law Enforcement or SAR. Info within is basically the same information you can get from the books I referenced in my earlier post in the learning map and compass thread.
68 for 100
63 on level asphalt iirc.
68 for 100 meters