Who's carrying a .410 handgun?

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Birdman, Jul 27, 2019.

  1. Birdman

    Birdman IG: @ChasingTheBackcountry Supporter

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    Honestly, I've never been a fan of them. However, I'm going to start load testing a Judge, because my wife decided that's going to be her mountain lion gun, and brought one home.
    So, if you carry one. What's your load of choice?
     
  2. goon

    goon Scout

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    For mountain lions I’d consider the Federal 000 buck loads specifically designed for handguns. They are short enough that fired hulls don’t expand out and tie the cylinder up. I’ve shot a very few out of a friend’s Judge, and about 40 out of a vintage T/C Contender. They pattern pretty well and 000 pellets are big enough to be effective against those cats, dangerous dogs, or human attackers.
     
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  3. bikerector

    bikerector Tracker

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    My brother carries one of the bond arms derringer-like things. I think he tends to use the self-defense ammo with plates and big beads for the stopping power.

    I think the winchester pdx1 ammo is what he was carrying. I believe the plan there is to just shoot twice and run like hell afterwards, though he may likely have another sidearm elsewhere in a less convenient place.
     
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  4. Mikewood

    Mikewood Supporter Supporter

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    I would load it with a nice JSP in 45 Long Colt. Those 000 buck rounds are good for close up but at distance they tend to spread out.
     
  5. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    REMEMBER... 45’s DONT SHOOT SAFELY thru 410’s!!!! o_Oo_O The Taurus Judge is a 45 COLT with a long cyl to accept 410 shells.

    BUT 410’s can shoot well in long chambered 45COLTS!!

    If you SAFELY want to shoot single projectiles from your 410, you have two options. Slugs and reloaded slugs. Many postings across the web of fireforming 444/303/30-40/9.3x74 brass cases into 410 and loading them with pistol Or cast bullets to very respectable results.

    PLEASE BE SAFE! 45 COLT in a .410 is not. This is not SHTF. :3:

    CW
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
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  6. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    I don't have one or have ever even shot one but if thats what the lady wants who am I to argue.

    Out of curiosity, I did a quick search at MidwayUSA.
    I would pick one of these.
    A 41cal FTX Slug over 2 35cal(000) buckshot
    599762.jpg
    The rest are labeled on the box

    393924.jpg 855757.jpg 258557.jpg
    And this combo pack gets u both!
     
  7. Moe M.

    Moe M. Supporter Supporter

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    I've never been a fan of handguns like the Judge or any of it's clones, in my opinion they are heavy for everyday carry, hard to conceal, and clumsy to put into action, as for using .410 ammo for self defense, it does have it's attributes at close range which the Judge and defensive .410 ammo are capable of, but at ranges past 20 feet or so they loose effectiveness very quickly.
    If it's going to be used as a trail gun for protection against snakes or more non dangerous game for survival hunting it may be a great option over carrying a full sized shotgun, but against dangerous predators like big cats, wolves, or packs of wild dogs it would not be my first choice.
    At close range (within seven yards) a single bullet has just as much chance of hitting it's mark as does a defensive load of .410 pellets, and just as much shocking power if not more, at longer ranges I'd trust a conventional revolver with a three inch barrel using standard .357mag., .44mag., or .45 Colt loadings over a .410 shotgun or handgun.

    Cwlongshot makes a valid point that .45 Colt loadings are not safe to fire in weapons designed to shoot .410 shot shells, .45 Colt cartridges develop a lot more pressure than what conventional .410 shotguns are designed to handle safely, BUT, since weapons such as the Judge, Circuit Judge and it's clones were designed around the .45 Colt cartridge and .410 shot shells just happen to fit the extended chambers in those guns it is perfectly safe to fire .45 Colt or .410 shot shells in those guns, IT IS NOT SAFE to fire .45 Colt cartridges in conventional arms designed to shoot .410 shot shells.

    Just my opinion for what it's worth, if I was going to spend some time in lion or bear country I'd put more faith in pepper spray than I would in a handgun chambered for .410 shot shells, but my first choice would be a conventional handgun that I am comfortable with and shoot well in a caliber I know is effective against what ever predator I might encounter in the area I'm in.

    Something to ponder :33:
     
  8. JohnP

    JohnP No more half measures Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I often carry a Judge when I’m out in the woods on my own property. It is loaded with #6 410s. I have shot a few .45s through it, but it was bought to be a snake gun. I personally wouldn’t carry one for a mountain lion. There are much better choices.

    ECE87668-74B5-4399-A513-F244CDBBE9E0.jpeg

    JohnP
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
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  9. dougx

    dougx Scout

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    I carry a bond arms rowdy sometimes. I like copper plated buck shot or hornady critical defense with the slug and buckshot. I've seen a couple of test with the pdx defender where not all the plates penetrate.
     
  10. DirtmanDave

    DirtmanDave Supporter Supporter

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    This what I carry berry picking.
    2 45LC 3 410 for snakes and other critters.
    44963-DEFAULT-l.jpg
    Not too bad to carry.
     
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  11. Birdman

    Birdman IG: @ChasingTheBackcountry Supporter

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    That's a nice holster! That'll be the next step. Getting her a holster.
     
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  12. JohnP

    JohnP No more half measures Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Thanks. I made that one.

    JohnP
     
  13. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    I have looked three times to buy one of these.

    VERY TEMPTING!

    Its just big...
     
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  14. DirtmanDave

    DirtmanDave Supporter Supporter

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    Mine. Changed the grips. More comfy to shoot. IMG_20190727_120615.jpg
     
  15. RickS

    RickS Supporter Supporter

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    I carry a Bond with critical defense ammo as backup. I figure if I need it I'm in a heck of a up close and personal fix anyway, so it's Hail Mary time!
     
  16. JeffG

    JeffG Guide

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    That Taurus looks like a great gun!
     
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  17. Elgatodeacero

    Elgatodeacero Scout

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    Large, poor ergonomics, low quality build, bad patterns, and low velocity.

    Fun for breaking clay targets at close range, but seems like a very poor choice for anything else.

    I do not understand the appeal of these .410 revolvers.
     
  18. Mr. Tettnanger

    Mr. Tettnanger Supporter Supporter

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    I feel the same way about redheads!
     
  19. jackpine

    jackpine Fire? I don't see any fire!? Supporter Bushclass I

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    After owning one of the Taurus 410 revolvers And testing with Various loads I went back to a minimum length single shot shotgun
     
  20. NevadaBlue

    NevadaBlue —- Roughian #7 -— --- Graybeard -— Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    I never cease to be amazed at how we can get opinions from those who have never held or used or owned something.
    Anyway, I carry the PDX1 rounds and jacketed hollow point 45 Colt rounds in my Judge. No, I have never killed a person or a mountain lion with my Judge. But, I did kill a ground squirrel with bird shot and stayed at a Motel 6 a few times.
     
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  21. BradGad

    BradGad Supporter Supporter

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    I will always have a soft spot for the .410 because my first gun, and only gun up to my late teens, was a Mossburg .410 bolt action.
     
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  22. Elgatodeacero

    Elgatodeacero Scout

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    If we couldn’t have opinions about stuff we have never done, things we have not used, and people we don’t know, then opinions would be far and few between, my friend!
     
  23. scottman

    scottman Bushmaster

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    mountain lions? how much penetration do you want on ballistic gel to simulate that? There s a good amount of gel tests on youtube and Paul Harrel has a whole series on the judge.

    450 mongo would be interesting if handloading, I still haven't tried it.

    My governor is basically retired to inside stashed currently with some moon clips with 45 gap gold dots. I really don't carry it that much anymore. I should sell that gun and some others that are up north. The gold dots 45 gap seemed to open up decently and get some good penetration I'm sure if would work on a mountain lion at CLOSE RANGE IF need be if a gunsmith cut the judge for moon clips. 45 acp critical defense 185 did not open up on stacked cases of water bottles.

     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
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  24. Glenn Rowe

    Glenn Rowe aka Ventura Knife Guy Supporter

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    Under California law, a .410 handgun is a "short-barreled shotgun" and is therefore illegal. Don't know that I agree with it, but it is the law of the land.
     
  25. DirtmanDave

    DirtmanDave Supporter Supporter

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    You need to move them.
     
  26. .356luger

    .356luger Scout

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    more than likely it causes cancer too and clubs baby seals in its down time...
     
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  27. Birdman

    Birdman IG: @ChasingTheBackcountry Supporter

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    That makes absolutely no sense. My 2 year old tries to use that logic.
     
  28. JohnP

    JohnP No more half measures Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Before I bought my Judge I toted a Mossberg 500 in the woods. I have dispatched as many snakes with the Judge and it’s much easier to carry. Say what you want, the Judge is a great snake gun for the woods, whether at work or play.

    JohnP
     
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  29. Glenn Rowe

    Glenn Rowe aka Ventura Knife Guy Supporter

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    If owning/carrying one was actually important to me or my wife, I'd consider it. For now we're quite happy here. California has been exceptionally good to, and for, us.

    Isn't that from the motto of the Hoosier State? :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
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  30. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    I'd love to check out CA. Few things on my bucket list.
    Pan for gold
    Goto the San Diego zoo
    Eat in Chinatown
    Catch a Humbolt Squid.


    As always. Sorry for the drift. I blame my meds. It's easy to blame the meds.
     
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  31. Glenn Rowe

    Glenn Rowe aka Ventura Knife Guy Supporter

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    C'mon out, there's lots to see and do!

    Within an hour's drive of our home
    :
    Universal Studios
    Warner Brothers Studios
    Six Flags Magic Mountain
    Malibu (all of it)
    Hollywood Bowl, etc.
    Autry Museum of Western Heritage (actually several very interesting museums)
    Getty Museum
    Getty Villa
    Norton Simon Museum
    California Science Center
    Natural History Museum
    Santa Barbara area
    Corriganville (old movie ranch)
    Melody Movie Ranch (Gene Autry)


    Within 2 hours:
    Disneyland
    Legoland
    Knott's Berry Farm
    Big Bear, Mountain High, etc (Ski resorts in winter, mountain biking in summer)

    Within 3 hours:
    San Diego area including the zoo & wild animal park
    Palm Springs area
    Joshua Tree National Park
    Anza-Borrego State Park

    Less than a Day:
    Big Sur (actually, all of Pacific Coast Highway from Cambria to Carmel)
    Monterey Bay Aquarium
    Sequoia National Park
    King's Canyon National Park
    Yosemite National Park
    Death Valley National Park
    Grand Canyon National Park
    Zion National Park
    Bryce Canyon National Park
    Lake Tahoe area
    Las Vegas
    --- and more

    [We return now to the regularly-scheduled thread.......]
     
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  32. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    The (FEDERAL) definition of a shotgun is a smooth or NON RIFLED barrel.


    California is the land of Fruits n Nuts nothing surprises me...

    No offense to any CA residents here abouts! :54:

    CW
     
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  33. JohnP

    JohnP No more half measures Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Two of them fruits and nuts are my cousins. No need for me to visit them. Been there, see no reason to ever go back.

    How ‘bout them Judges!

    JohnP
     
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  34. Glenn Rowe

    Glenn Rowe aka Ventura Knife Guy Supporter

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    C'mon now, @Cwlongshot , get it right! According to the late Ronald Reagan, California is like granola -- what ain't fruits or nuts is flakes! :D:D
    <---------- California resident for nearly 31 years
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
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  35. Rawhiderick

    Rawhiderick Tracker

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    I carried a Judge Public Defender model (original all stainless version) for several years. Mainly for Adirondack Mtn black bears. I was a bear magnet for a while. Anyway, I had 3 hand loaded 45lc rounds followed by 2 brass case .410 buckshot. Some kind of Russian import but they were stout to shoot. Never shot it past about 7 yards but the buckshot stayed on a paper plate every time at that distance. Figured beyond that distance I wouldn't be shooting, or at least not the .410 rounds.

    I'm sure we can all come up with a better or more preferred gun to carry, but it'll do the job especially at up close and in your face ranges. Switched to a Ruger sp101 a couple years ago. No particular reason other than justifying another gun purchase.
     
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  36. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    CT aint too far behind.

    And does this mean I can chop my rifled slug barrel down to 16in?
     
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  37. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    ABSOLUTELY!!
    Just dont try and attach it to a receiver that can take a smooth bore... :rolleyes::p:59:

    Darn thread has me wanting to look at that poly frame 410 Revolver again..... :34::33:
     
  38. scottman

    scottman Bushmaster

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    Yeah I’m too busy but this thread has me wanted to take some time to set up again and get some 450 Mongo tests going ....
     
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  39. Morrow7x

    Morrow7x Supporter Supporter

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    What, nobody's packing a Stevens 35?!

    35.jpg

    :D

    (Google search image, not mine.)
     
  40. jstert

    jstert Scout

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    i sometimes carry a bond arms derringer for a few reasons: 1. it’s built like a brick outhouse. 2. it goes bang every time. 3. it doesn’t print. 4. with changeable barrels it’s useful when ammo scrounging. 5. with 410 handgun specific defense ammo i’ve got a better chance of usefully hitting my most likely threat of a smaller rabid/feral quadraped where i woodswalk. 6. bond arms’ back story as a small, self made company that stands behind its work. 7. its all steel heft. 8. i rarely spend mad money, it was a gift to myself and i think that it’s cool.

    that said, a cousin’s taurus judge is his beloved ccw. he is an ardent 2a supporter but his situation doesn’t allow many firearms or alot of range time, he isn’t a hunter or target shooter. he is a big guy who lives in a rural area, self employed out of his home. he simply loves shooting big 45lc and 410 buckshot rounds, and a double action revolver’s simplicity. open carrying his judge he has met a few guys who happened to “wander up” his dead end, secluded, semi paved, lane marked “private way” seeking directions. i suspect that it was his hand resting on the judge on his hip more than his smile and “gee, seems that you guys made a wrong turn” that sent them back out on their way without incident. the judge and more expensive s&w governor seems to be made for guys like my cousin. more power to them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
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  41. Oldguy59

    Oldguy59 Roughian #5 Supporter

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    Just out of curiosity, what is the velocity of a .410 out of the Judge?
     
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  42. Woodsroamer

    Woodsroamer Scout

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    I bought my pap one for carrying around the yard and I would not feel under gunned with a mixed load of 45 hollow points and 410 defense shells in mountain lion or black bear country. I kinda want a judge in 454 casull now that would be good medicine anywhere :).
    I just googled it and saw that Taurus already makes one
     
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  43. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    31474EBE-4497-4270-9C00-C8F9D6C6654A.jpeg 23C5DA6A-04AF-4BE3-961D-2D33DAECD4A4.jpeg

    These aught a be dandy's in that Judge!! They are cast Soft & powder coated, 270g Lyman Devastator HP’s in 45 COLT!! Maybe one of them in a 450 mongo over trailboss... :eek:o_O

    CW

     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
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  44. JeffG

    JeffG Guide

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    I don't know why this....
    44963-DEFAULT-l.jpg

    Looks so much cooler than this....
    ECE87668-74B5-4399-A513-F244CDBBE9E0.jpeg

    But I am starting to think I want one. Or two...o_O
     
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  45. scottman

    scottman Bushmaster

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    Lehigh maximum expansion rounds would be cool but probably not what one wants for ML

     
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  46. scottman

    scottman Bushmaster

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    The heeled bullet would be cool with full length cases . I have 410 mag techs uses large pistol primers
     
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  47. Kenneth

    Kenneth Guide

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    67087440_635894150263076_7135536087207772160_n.jpg

    Here is the definition of a shotgun from the ATF quoting the U.S.C.
    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firear...n-firearms-gun-control-act-definition-shotgun

    "Firearms Verification
    Gun Control Act Definitions
    Shotgun
    18 U.S.C., § 921(A)(5) and 27 CFR § 478.11

    The term “Shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

    Note: This illustration shows the primary characteristics exhibited in the shotgun category. Since shotgun configurations differ significantly, various models in this classification may exhibit any of the illustrated components in a revised configuration but not necessarily all components shown will be incorporated in any one given design."

    gca-shotgun.jpg

    Under the definition of "shoulder fired" is why the pistol grip Mossberg shockwave is legal in Texas.

    https://www.nraila.org/articles/201...ond-amendment-bills-from-2017-regular-session

    "An amendment was added to HB 1819 in the Senate to clarify that non-NFA, short-barreled firearms with a pistol grip -- such as the Mossberg 590 Shockwave -- are not unlawful to sell or own in Texas. The Lone Star State is one of just two states where this particular gun cannot currently be sold lawfully. Both laws take effect on September 1, 2017."

    GOD Bless you and your families

    Kenneth
     
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  48. riverjoe

    riverjoe Supporter Supporter

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    Hoosier State motto “
    We do less with less , but we can change ,if we have to .
     
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  49. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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  50. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    Two informative videos on these revolvers.
    PT1



    Pt2

     

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