Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Paulyseggs, Aug 12, 2019.
Not many autos in 44
single action or double action?
I grew up with wheel guns, carried one for most of my LE career, competed in PPC shoots, used a .41 & .44 Mag. in long range steel shoots, and have been shooting revolvers recreationally for 60 years and have never had a revolver fail on me, I've had ammo failures, but none with the guns.
But I keep my guns clean, lubed, and I check them over regularly for loose screws, cylinder play, lock up, check the cylinder latch, and ejection rod/cylinder pins, probably why I don't experience any problems.
Colt wheel guns go out of time quickly, S&W Revolvers rarely go out of time, but either will give you fair warning before the timing becomes a problem, if you are paying attention.
, Single action in a D/A revolver is for hunting, all other shooting should be double action, with practice most people can get target accuracy out of their wheel guns shooting double action.
I like some revolvers because they're "pretty", same reason as a few 1911s but not because they are practical-- for/to me.
Some guns are attractive simply because of features, finishes, history, craftsmanship. Others are attractive because of their functionality and capabilities, like Glock or Sig for instance. Different kind of pretty. I don't base my SD needs soley on looks fortunately.
I'd love an early 20th century S&W J or K frame blued with wood grips, but I'd never use it, and I don't have time for something I can't use right now.
Function, design, history are one of the things that draws me to a revolver.
Technically that's a failure to load. Which means the gun was never in the fight to begin with. So would have to make do as a club. Jus say'n....
I estimate that I've worked on approximately 300 to 400 handguns over the years. Therefore, I respectfully decline to make such a list. I get the impression that I've stepped on some toes and that wasn't my intent. I've seen good and bad examples of each type of gun. It's as simple as that.
Load, feed........same thing.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go load the kids.
Because they come in blued steel and walnut that has a soul no polymer pistol can match.
I should clarify : the list of failures I posted above were ones I observed looking at many friends revolvers. Personally, the only ones that I have experienced were one model 19 S&W that went out of time after hundreds of heavy .357 rounds , a S&W 651 .22 mag that would freeze after firing two cylinders full and the Freedom Arms 97 I mentioned whose cylinder would freeze after 10-11 shots of hot .44 Keith type loads.
I saw other stainless S&W guns suffer the same cylinder lockup because of heat and powder fouling. I also saw several .38,.357,and 44 mag chambered Smiths lock up when projectiles with insufficient crimp, walk out of their cases and lock the cylinder when the bullet nose rotated against the barrel extension.
If one has not experienced any revolver failures, good on them!
Well yeah...but "soul" can rust. So there's that. Lol
That's not rust...that's "personality".
Personality goes a long way.
Your gun has "personality" when it's a keeper.
It has patina when you go to sell it
Anyone remember the Sevell?
I only have Single Action revolvers remaining mostly because I like the .45 Colt round, especially for woods carry. I can reload it to magnum pressures if a suitable Ruger revolver (or some others are used). However, even in a standard SAA pattern, a regular .45 Colt is a formidable round.
Bowen makes some fine rebuilds!!
I'm kinda fond and partial to these lil buggers too!
Pocket Rockets is what we callem’
Thats a Hoggs leg and a Ranger
I’ve always gravitated towards revolvers. My dad carried a S&W 357 mag revolver as a Customs Agent. Perhaps that’s where my love for them comes from.
S&W EVERY time.
Here is one I most regret selling...65
RB, 3” 357.
Oh my no, you didn't step on toes. Not mine anyway. I'm very interested in the differences you've observed.
I suspect some of the discussion is rooted in different meanings of words like "failures". I'll offer a clarification that might help...
Failure to Fire - includes light hammer strikes on good ammo, double feeds, failure to cycle or advance, failure to eject and any other failure during the act of shooting and reloading.
Failure Requiring Bench Service - includes any failure that can't be cleared by hand in the field or with a field strip and cleaning and that requires repair with dedicated tools (aka gunsmithing).
My hunch/experience is that revolvers have fewer "failures to fire" but have higher rates of "failures requiring bench service".
When you say that you've "worked on approximately 300 to 400 handguns", I'm assuming you are referring to bench type repair. I would actually expect that revolvers require by a gunsmith more often.
I'm equally interested in your experiences with "failure to fire" on the firing line. I suspect that revolvers are more reliable in that respect. Certainly my experience.
To my knowledge, a revolver is the only firearm (handgun or long arm) that one can keep loaded but with no live cartridge under the firing pin ("in the chamber") that one can still make ready to fire using only the fingers on the one hand that is already holding and maintaining control of the weapon - no gross movements of one's arms, etc.
I have never read or heard about this distinction made before or elsewhere. Perahps, I am simply not well read.
This is unique to the revolver.
That is why it is my choice in a hammock and why I can cuddle it even it while it is still "loaded".
Just got done handloading 100 rounds for a new gun in a new (to me) caliber with an untried projectile. Will it feed reliably? (Open cylinder...plunk six in) Why, yes! GTG.
I'd REALLY like a 3" RB 65....
I grew up during the '50s and '60s. The cowboy Westerns filled the airwaves back then. So my first pistol was a Ruger Single Six Combo
LR/.22 Mag. A Ruger Bisley Blackhawk in .44 Mag soon followed. I ended up getting SS Redhawk too, but my Bisley was my favorite revolver.
I also had a 4” 64 at the same time. Great guns! Someone is enjoying them...
In a hunting event one assumes them self to be the predator, rarely assuming to be the prey .
I have learned I am both .
The weapon I carry reflects the expectations of the venture both of my hunt or of being hunted.
In a social atmosphere however the need to match the potential predator is imperative . What is his potential ?
I had two of them and they both got away...dumb move on my part.
hi cwlongshot, please tell more about the lanyard ring on your ruger single six, which is perfect for outdoors use. thanks!
OK, I recognize that I sound like a PITA, for that I apologize, Besides being a trained and certified police firearms and patrol instructor (Ret.) I served as armorer for two municipal LE agencies and was certified by both S&W and Ruger's armorers schools, so I'm not without practical experience.
When we discuss firearms failures we have to be specific about placing blame where it belongs, just because a firearm fails to function properly does not mean the firearm itself has failed, many times it's the ammo that's bad, other times it's simply poor maintenance that's the cause, in other cases it's the fault of the operator using ammo that the firearm wasn't designed to handle.
Poorly reloaded ammo using dirty burning powder can quickly foul the workings of a revolver or semi-auto pistol badly enough with just a few cylinder or magazines full being fired to interfere with functioning, specialty loads that exceed the pressures found in standard commercially loaded ammo can cause frames, slides, cylinders, cranes, and springs to be stressed to the point where they don't mate or function properly, extremely hot loads can cause firearm parts to expand from the heat generated by the overly hot gases created by them in rapid fire, causing them to bind up.
Semi-auto firearms are particularly sensitive to powder fouling, pocket lint, and environmental dirt and dust that can impede function, magazines in particular will cause a perfectly good pistol to malfunction consistently because of slightly bent feed lips.
None of these failures are nor should they be attributed to the firearm, they are either the fault of poor owner maintenance, bad ammo, or after sale damage.
As has been said earlier by others, both pistols and revolvers have their advantages and disadvantages, weight, size, capacity, and other factors usually determine which is best for any particular owner/user.
Revolvers have fewer requirements needed to put them into action, their systems are simpler, usually have fewer working parts and a much lower potential to failures, they are usually better suited to women, seniors, or those who may be physically challenged, who may not have the strength to rack the slide, fool with safeties, make magazine changes, or worry about jams cause by limp wristed individuals.
That said, Semi-autos have come a long way in the last couple of decades as far as reliability and ergonomics, and have made exceptional strides in ammo technology, I've owned many different brands of semi-autos over the years, some (name brands) were flawless and never failed except for a bad round, others had multiple issues that needed to be sorted out and fixed before they could be counted on to be reliable.
Of the semi-autos that I have now, all are utterly reliable, but when it comes to my EDC, for many reasons it's still the old reliable wheel gun.
There was a book written in 1950 by Bob Nichols called something like The Secret of double action Shooting, he makes some comments about auto-pistols that were probably true in 1950 and makes a good argument for the DA revolver. But things have really changed in the world of handguns since then.
If you ever get the chance to read it, it is amusing the style was different back then and he was talking to manly men. If you don't want to plod through all the pages of his bluster at least if you can find the book read the last chapter "conclusion". He talks about men being less manly and the rising crime rate... seems nothing has changed.
My sentimental favorites. I've put about 2,000 rounds thru 'em, and won a few Senior Duelist matches too:
They're Uberti clones, and originally had that butt-ugly flat black "Millennium Finish." The conversion cylinders are R&D. I installed 1875 Remington hammer springs. The grips came from Western & Wildlife Wonders.
I finished second, by 0.2 seconds, in a close-range speed-shooting match with this old Smith & Wesson. During my practices I figured out why they called 'em "belly-guns".
As mentioned on another thread, I have three Blackhawks (.30 carbine, .45/.45 convertible, .357/9mm convertible), and an old-school Single Six.
My double-actions are also old-school: two S&W Model 19's. One has a 4-inch barrel and the other a 6-inch barrel. Both are wearing Hogue grips.
I have a 60-4 3" but think that the 65 3" represents the epitome of S&W woods bumming goodness.
These factory RB grips were courtesy of @ezra45 Thanks again Sir for your generosity.
I've yet to run across one for a fair price but will snag one when the opportunity presents itself.
honestly? i'm old school, and there's something "right" a revolver, especially if it doesn't have plastic or rubber grips. it's the same reason i want wood stocks on my long guns, and a long/recurve bow instead of a compound.
just my opinion.
I keep looking at these ...the mini-master model in particular seems like it would make a great backpacking gun. I like the simplicity of them and don't mind a slower reload, but have heard rumors of misfires and crazy-heavy trigger pull. Have you found them to be reasonably reliable, and are they capable of accurate shooting at small game hunting range (30', say)?
I have shot cowboy matches with people who can run a single-action pistol every bit as fast as anyone can run a double-action. There were two young men who rang those steel pistol targets like an alarm-clock!
DING-DING-DING-DING-DING! [Short pause] DING-DING-DING-DING-DING!
I felt awed to be in the presence of greatness....
I did the Cowboy Action shoots for three years all over New England, single actions are great fun and in spite of what some folks say, in the hands of people who know them they are still formattable weapons.
My post was about shooting double action revolvers in single action mode.
Yup, got it. I was "building onto" your post.
I believe you're right about that. When I speak of "worked on", I am indeed referring to bench repairs. Very few can make correct repairs on revolvers without specific knowledge and training. I've seen many botched jobs. I've worked on guns of all types and am constantly made aware of how erroneous some of the beliefs about various mechanisms that are had by some of those who profess great experience.
Many of the issues with auto pistols are due to poor quality control standards by the manufacturers. Same with revolvers.
I've put thousands of rounds through some revolvers with no problems whatsoever.
That said, it's also true that I've fired thousands of rounds through some auto pistols with not a single hiccup.
At the bench, I can make an auto pistol about as reliable as can be achieved by human hands.
In the field without tools, I can field strip an auto pistol almost in my sleep and even detail stripping only takes a bit longer. Revolvers are a much different animal.
In case you've forgotten, I've already stated I generally prefer revolvers but I dislike inaccurate statements being spread around. I'm not here to argue or debate.
For me....the subject won't be further discussed.
Ive been jonesin for a 4in Mini Master for awhile myself. It does seem to be a perfect woods gun. Light and handy! Size of a Mora.
I had a Black Widow. And it shot great. Like really great! It shot better than my single six. But I sold it for something shiny .
Top looks like a Remington... bottom an early Smith and Wesson doesn't it? I like em both! Specially that bottom model...I dig that break open design...
is that a copy of Elmer Keith's #5
I know you were talking about us mortals, but this seems like a good time to mention this.....