Woman dies trying to reach "Into the Wild" bus

Discussion in 'General Bushcraft Discussion' started by Akela, Jul 27, 2019.

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  1. Akela

    Akela Scout

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  2. Teeps

    Teeps Hobbyist Hobbyist Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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  3. Andy 315

    Andy 315 Supporter Supporter

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    Geez... Very sad.
     
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  4. S.Decker

    S.Decker Supporter Supporter

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    I have no sympathy for stupidity.
     
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  5. Hoof

    Hoof Former Genius

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    I learned many hard lessons growing up, luckily I never paid the ultimate price for my bad decisions. She was old enough to know better, she probably had very little outdoor experience.
     
  6. Kennebago

    Kennebago Scout

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    If you read the book... you knew about that river crossing. Or at least in my edition it's pretty clear.

    Strange and very sad.
     
  7. Moe M.

    Moe M. Supporter Supporter

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    Back in the day (mine) the point at which most people were expected to "Know Better" was about 16 yrs. old, today's standard for "Knowing Better" is about 35 yrs. old for many, and some it seems will never attain it.
     
  8. central joe

    central joe Wait For Me!! Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Me neither lad. joe
     
  9. Sandcut

    Sandcut Sed ego sum homo indomitus Vendor Supporter

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    The irony of the whole situation, as sad as it is in this case, is that the story of Chris McCandless is meant to be a cautionary tale as much as it is an inspiration.

    The cautionary part was apparently lost on this woman and her husband and they paid the price. They aren't the first and they won't be the last. This just adds to the allure and mystery of making it to the site.
     
  10. jjwint

    jjwint Tracker Banned

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    Sad if true.

    And who's to say any different? Forget forensics or autopsy . . . what will they tell you?

    I hate being so cynical, but . . . I'd be checking for unusually large insurance policies on this one . . .

    I'm sure the cops do. The Alaskan wilderness probably resolves many inter-personal conflicts . . . .
     
  11. PAcanis

    PAcanis Supporter Supporter

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    Same for the movie.
    That's what makes this seem odd to me. Seems like a dumb, or overlooked, mistake to make if you know the story.

    And I'm kind of surprised that in all this time no one has strung a hand line across. Maybe it's not allowed?
     
  12. trailhermit

    trailhermit Supporter Supporter

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    I think the story is sad. It seems like many people want a taste of his adventure. To die in pursuit from lack of ability is tragic.
     
  13. Morrow7x

    Morrow7x Supporter Supporter

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    IMHO time to obliterate that bus.

    Morons following in the footsteps of another moron.

    I just can't grasp what people find inspiring or intriguing about the McCandless story. There are countless other 'adventure' stories set in Alaska...:confused:

    Proof that the Blanche DuBois theory of wilderness survival only works until you run out of strangers...
     
  14. DKR

    DKR Guide

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    Another in a long string of incautious tourists dying to see a rusty old bus.
    [​IMG]
    she was dying to see this junk pile.

    [​IMG]
    overhead view

    [​IMG]
    river that took her life.

    I've petitioned the State of Alaska to remove or cut the damned thing to pieces to stop romantic fools from killing themselves. No luck - no $$ for the removal.
     
  15. boomchakabowwow

    boomchakabowwow Guide

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    I have sympathy for pretty much anyone that dies young.

    I’d argue most deaths are the direct result of an unwise decision. It can be much more sublime than underestimating a water crossing. (Done that bow hunting hogs, but I got lucky). For example; not quitting smoking, not getting enough exercise, not wearing sun screen, etc. dumb stuff. We all do them.

    It always surprises me people choose to chime in with the Darwin comment, or as you have. Especially when someone died.

    I say. RIP to the young lady. And I hope peace to the husband. Unless he pulled off the perfect murder :)
     
  16. arleigh

    arleigh Guide

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    There were several others who died as a result of the same attempt" Europeans ".
    Most go unprepared for more than a few days which is wrong to begin with .
    Good sense tells you that no trip in the woods is going to be as planned.
    I always bring enough food for several days more than planned, because I know how things usually go.
    Alaska wilderness should be respected significantly more than any where else on the planet .
    But no one should be stopped from trying, may be after a while people will develop some good sense and find other challenges .
     
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  17. PMSteve

    PMSteve Old Timey Outdoorsman Supporter

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    Looks like the lure of the Alaskan Wilderness continues to claim lives.

    People venture into that part of the US without having the proper equipment or the plain old common sense to survive against Mother Nature. Mother Nature will always win in the end. It seems that most, if not all of these victims are under the age of 30. They have no practical knowledge of wilderness survival nor the mentality to recognize when they should simply say 'No' when faced with an insurmountable obstacle. Too bad that this lack cost them their lives.

    Steve
     
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  18. badgerthehobo

    badgerthehobo Down the river and up the creek Bushclass I

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    It was always my understanding that the bus isn’t even that hard to get to, at the right time of year.

    I mean, it’s a bus. It got there... the path it took must be overgrown by now, but unless it got dropped there during an insane flood or by a helicopter, I’ve always assumed it was driven there and parked.
     
  19. Morrow7x

    Morrow7x Supporter Supporter

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    Seems like it would be cheaper than ongoing SAR costs.

    I'd think as long as it was just destroyed to the point it no longer offered a good 'selfie,' that would be sufficient. The forest will reclaim the lot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
  20. badgerthehobo

    badgerthehobo Down the river and up the creek Bushclass I

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    Alaska has a ton of mining history, somebody’s gotta have a spare stick of dynamite laying around somewhere...
     
  21. DKR

    DKR Guide

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    This kind of (expletive deleted) doesn't help
    [​IMG]

    IF you cross the river at low water, it it merely dangerous.

    [​IMG]

    The problem is that tourists come to the area (a lot of the EU) and don't know high from low water and most have never done a river crossing. Add in that they don't want to go back home 'empty handed', so as to speak - (they know they will never be back) and the urge to take the risk becomes fatal.

    It isn't just here - In my backyard is the Crow Pass trail that requires crossing Eagle River - at a well marked fording point.
    [​IMG]
    and yet, if you are not careful or the water is too high...

    https://www.alaskapublic.org/2019/0...sed-to-use-caution-when-crossing-eagle-river/
     
  22. jjwint

    jjwint Tracker Banned

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    Aw hell . . . . just spit out my coffee laughing. :18: Now I have to take apart the keyboard.

    I found this quote about McCandless on wikipedia

    I think a lot of people have a fundamental lack of respect for the backcountry. It''s pure arrogance and over-confidence.

    They get used to state parks and "nature trails" and don't realize that in real Nature you're just another organism fighting to survive.

    This creature could care less about where you got you college degree, how much you have in the bank and how brilliant your parents think you are.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. NevadaBlue

    NevadaBlue —- Roughian #7 -— --- Graybeard -— Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    No, not sad at all. And not due to ability. It is due to lack of brains. That problem was solved by the river.
    No, EVERYONE can’t do EVERYTHING, and if they aren’t smart enough to know what they can do, OH WELL.
     
  24. Wasp

    Wasp DOWN IN DIXIE Supporter

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    Sounds like she got what she was after, to be closer to the story.
     
  25. Wasp

    Wasp DOWN IN DIXIE Supporter

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    When I read the title of the thread, I seriously thought she died reaching into the bus for a second. I was thinking, tetanus or bled out? Like she cut her arm or something. Took me a second, but I'm tired.
     
  26. x39

    x39 Hyperborean Supporter

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    The woods don't care.
     
  27. JoeJ

    JoeJ Supporter Supporter

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    I see no problem at all. I extremely dislike being told what I can’t do or shouldn’t do. I know what I did, I also know of my failures. I now know of my limitations due to age and I still don’t like to be told “you’re not young anymore - you know”! I still fail at a few tasks and someone younger picks up the slack.

    Let people do what they think they can do or want to do - if it costs them their life or limbs, so be it - their choice and if it’s only a body part, they will have to adjust.

    Evil Knievel, in my book, pushed his limits and I always thought he was a great guy. I watched as my father shot rapids in a canoe with me and my 2 brothers - I was never scared with Pa in the canoe - now the 1st time I did it, I felt real sick to my stomach on the approach and fought the urge to abandon the whole idea but once in the white water, all fear left me and that paddle worked it’s magic. Now, I have my share of water mishaps, and could have drowned in a couple of them but Lady Luck and the Good Lord saw me through.

    I’ve got my share of broken bones, replacement parts, stitches and I earned every damn one - let all other fools earn theirs in whatever activity they desire. I respect those dying from injuries suffered in the field as opposed to those couch potatoes going out from eating too many jelly donuts.

    I just hope she died of her own free will and her hubby wasn’t the main factor.
     
  28. Moe M.

    Moe M. Supporter Supporter

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    When ever we encounter a story where loss of life is concerned someone has to issue a hue and cry condemning what ever inanimate object that was part of it, if it's a mass homicide someone yells for more gun control, if it's an automobile (remember the Pinto) again some do gooder busy body wants it banned, if a person is mauled by a Mtn. lion some fool demands that the trail be posted off limits, Animals and people should be allowed the choice of doing what they want with their lives as long as it doesn't harm anyone else directly.
    The Bus is hurting no one, nobody is forced to make the trek to view it, If I decide I want to make the trip to actually see and touch the bus I would be really pissed if someone who couldn't mind their own business or worse a group of them had it destroyed, IMHO people who feel the need to protect society from itself by having certain things, places, foods, and the like made illegal just because they think they are bad for us are one of our biggest problems in this country.
    *If you don't want to go to the Bus site DON'T GO.
    *If you think Soda is bad DON'T DRINK IT.
    *If you don't like guns DON'T OWN ONE.

    But don't be so arrogant as to tell me what to do with my life. :mad:
     
  29. DKR

    DKR Guide

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    I appreciate the "Don't tell me what I can or can't do" -a very American attitude. Quintessential even.

    The problem for everyone else comes from paying to have the body removed.....

    https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/art...allenges-search-and-body-recovery/2012/06/19/

    if the body can even be recovered - https://www.nationalparkstraveler.o...uried-mt-mckinley-summit-denali-national-park

    Have fun - stay safe.
     
  30. Sandcut

    Sandcut Sed ego sum homo indomitus Vendor Supporter

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    Having thought about this a while this morning, I think what you say rings true. It is very easy to get into trouble with a water crossing, even if you do know what you are doing. Add in inexperience and a healthy dose of normalcy bias (Who? Me? That'll never happen to me!) and you have conditions ripe for badness. Toss in the added impulse to not "fail" because you are on your one vacation attempt and you amplify the risk.

    This could happen to most of us at one time or another, especially when young and "impervious".
     
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  31. whtshdwwz

    whtshdwwz Supporter Supporter

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    boomchakabowwow.....very classy post, I for one appreciate your outlook and response....be well.
     
  32. Jon Foster

    Jon Foster Guide

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    I read about it this morning. It's sad someone died but being stupid and doing stupid things doesn't give anyone a valid excuse...

    Jon.
     
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  33. GKiT

    GKiT Guide

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    I agree with this.

    I think part of the problem is that a surprising number of people feel sad when someone they do not know or have any connection to is killed. I suspect some of this is a learned or trained concern for others and some of it is just feeling like they should feel sad even though they couldn’t really care less. I’m not sure why, folks are dying somewhere all the time whether you hear about it or not. There are enough tragic events surrounding family, friends and acquaintances in a persons lifetime for more than enough sadness, why invent more for random strangers?

    This bus could be the death of thousands a year and I would be against paying a single dime to have it removed. Let people do what they want. if they want to visit a rusty bus, great. If they die in the river, It’s none of my business or concern.
     
  34. FreudianSlip

    FreudianSlip Guide

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    I don’t understand this shortage of sympathy in reading here.
     
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  35. Revinmama

    Revinmama Scout Bushclass I

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    The issue of adventure and risk is complicated and very emotional for many people. People will always line up on one side or the other of "acceptable risk" versus "unacceptable risk." Many of my friends and relatives cheered me on for taking multiple, solo, motorcycle camping trips where I rode through 31 US States and 1 Canadian Province. At my funeral -- if I had died on one of those trips -- they would have consoled themselves with the knowledge that I died doing what I loved with great passion. Other folks would have blamed and accused those people for encouraging or enabling me to engage in such horribly risky behavior.

    Overly fearful? Overly foolish?
    Paranoid? Passionate?
    Weak? Willful?

    Where is the tipping point when acceptable risk becomes unacceptable risk?
    Losing a limb is okay, but losing a life is not?
    Is it risk if one has nothing to lose?

    Even if I believe her risk was unacceptable (foolish/stupid/moronic/???), her death is still sad.

    Marlene
     
  36. MrFixIt

    MrFixIt Old Jarhead LB#42 Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    Thank you Marlene, very well said.
     
  37. Bush Billy

    Bush Billy Supporter Supporter

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    Experience can be an unforgiving teacher. Many or most of us likely escaped the ultimate fate at some point by shear luck. I've questioned myself at times. . ."why am I still here?" It wasn't a smart move on her part, but I can't cast the first stone on this one.
     
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  38. GunGoBoom

    GunGoBoom I'm not lost, I've just misplaced myself. Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    Let others live, and potentially die, as they see fit. I've taken my fair share of stupid risks and I hardly feel that I am qualified to judge others for the risks they take. This woman felt like this was something she needed to do. Let her and her husband have that.
     
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  39. NevadaBlue

    NevadaBlue —- Roughian #7 -— --- Graybeard -— Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    There is no reason for the body to be recovered by anyone but her husband. It will also take care of itself. Lots of large animals die in the wilderness every day and they cause no problems. I am tired of hearing and seeing public money spent for no reason. This is no reason...
     
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  40. Wasp

    Wasp DOWN IN DIXIE Supporter

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    James Kearny died a few weeks ago. They didn't write an article about it in a paper, people that weren't his family or friends didn't hear about it and weren't sorrowful, they didn't show up for his funeral, or pay for him to be burried. His family and friends will miss him every day. People that never knew him went on with their lives, even if they heard about it they forgot by the next day and didn't remember him the next week, or a year from now.

    Was it sad he died? Sure. To those that loved and cared for him he will be missed and their heart will ache.

    I didn't know James Kearny at all, never even spoke to him.
     
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  41. RavenLoon

    RavenLoon axology student Supporter

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    That bus is beyond a legend now. If it is destroyed the site will still draw people. The state should maybe charge an entry fee to see it and have a ranger standing by. People drown in Lake Superior right in town here every few years despite all the warning signs of rip currents, life guards, and hanging safety equipment. Some people just can't have enough protection.
     
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  42. Woodsman Wannabe

    Woodsman Wannabe Scout

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    I agree, even if the bus were removed, the spot would still be there and draw people to it.
    Personally, I believe it does not matter where you are or what you are doing, when you have expended your allotted number of heart beats, well, that's it.
    Recovery of bodies should be done only if it is safe for the folks involved. The estate should have to pay the expense as well. No $, well I guess the wolves and bears will feast on my fat...
     
  43. mtnoutdoors

    mtnoutdoors Prov 27:17

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    it's a sad thing right there. Be in prayer for the family. Prov 27:17
     
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  44. S.Decker

    S.Decker Supporter Supporter

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    Couldn't agree more.
     
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  45. DavidJAFO

    DavidJAFO Keeper of the Clubhouse swear jar Supporter

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    hello,
    @badgerthehobo I found this... The Magic Bus Phenomenon: The Stampede Trail came to be in the 1930s when the miner Earl Pilgrim (what an interesting last name) used it to access his antimony claims on Stampede Creek. Later in 1961, the Yutan Construction Company tried to upgrade the trail, so trucks could be hauling ore from the mines back to the railroad. The project was halted shortly after, before any bridges where built. The company used buses to transport workers from Fairbanks to the work sites these days. A man named Jess Mariner, who was a heavy-duty mechanic employed with Yutan Construction during the 1960s and 1970s, had bought two buses from the City of Fairbanks to use as mobile homes while working out in the country. The engine of bus 142 had been removed and so it was pulled by D8 Cats when moved from camp to camp. At some point the axle of bus 142 broke and it was left on the trail to serve as shelter for hunters and trappers in the following years. The trail and the bus finally got famous when the body of Christopher McCandless was found inside the bus on the 9th of September 1992.
    Regards
    David
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
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  46. Haggis

    Haggis Bushmaster

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    I’ve sure done a lot of biggly stupid things in my life, never paid the price of “my life” or even serious harm for any of them,,, next to man or woman comes along, first big mistake they’ve ever made, and BANG, they’re dead...

    The daring who live are celebrated as brave or heroes, the daring who die are remembered as stupid or fools,,, the fickle finger of fate is the only difference between the two...

    Edited to ask; (rhetorically) “Where those who attempted to climb Mt. Everest, and died, stupid”?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
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  47. DavidJAFO

    DavidJAFO Keeper of the Clubhouse swear jar Supporter

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    Ps. R.I.P #RESPECT Christopher McCandless & all those who lost their lives since this unfortunate incident.
     
    Paulyseggs, superpaco, WILL and 3 others like this.
  48. Kingsford

    Kingsford Guide

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    Sad ending to it but it was her adventure not ours.
     
  49. Snakeshooter

    Snakeshooter Scout

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    I wish I a button to LOVE this post. I have to agree personal responsibility is a biggie with me. If I mess up then it's on me. To quote a famous movie line, "Worms gotta eat too" If I try and fail it's my bad, at least I tried it and failed doing something I wanted to. I don't try and forbid anyone to do anything as long as it isn't bothering anyone else. I hate it for people but I won't stop them. It's not the wilderness's fault or the object. It's human nature.
     
  50. x39

    x39 Hyperborean Supporter

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    It's interesting how risk averse our culture has become. It's as though the value of any given endeavor is ultimately decided by actuaries who see all through a lens of potential monetary cost.
     
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