Womens Bushcraft Group/Club

Discussion in 'General Bushcraft Discussion' started by Wendy Owens, Jun 7, 2019.

  1. ExAF1N1

    ExAF1N1 Member of a small but fierce tribe. LB-42 Supporter

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    Re: post #48:

    Or they do it when guys are around lol. I've been a nurse for over 6yrs, and let me tell you, it's something to be the fly on the wall. Same stuff we talk about pretty much, but the "other side of the story".

    If you think guys have a monopoly on locker room talk, think again!

    Normal forum rules would apply of course, so family friendly as the rest of it here. My approval isn't needed, I say go for it if you all want to :dblthumb:
     
  2. 1066vik

    1066vik Guide

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    this - exactly this.

    and while I'm pretty sure there will be topics that would be of value to all members, there are a lot of things posted every day that I never see, so I'm in favor of it being a "closed" or "subscription only" group (so posts are only visible to members rather than showing up in everyone's unread posts list) if that's the direction the members want to take it.
    this might limit some posts that would otherwise derail a conversation or limit the participants from some candidness, but otherwise preserve a more civil and less defensive environment.
    I'm not saying the membership could only be female, just limit participation to members to hold down on random views of more sensitive topics that may come up.
     
  3. Wasp

    Wasp DOWN IN DIXIE Hobbyist Supporter

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    I'm actually fine with it being exclusive too. The only reason I said something was because as soon as someone makes a "Men Only" exclusionary group someone at some point is sure to fall apart about it.

    [Which I mentioned in my original post that I deleted yesterday "..."]
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  4. PACoureurDuBois

    PACoureurDuBois For God and Country --AISI #49-- --Roughian #79--

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    Two words: Boy. Scouts.

    That being said, I will politely bow out of this thread and go about my day.
     
  5. bacpacjac

    bacpacjac Queen of the Cups Supporter Bushclass I

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    Touchy topic. Eeks! I'm going to play on my Canadian citizenship and stay on the fence on this one.

    I've been happy to play in the mixed-gender world of BCUSA, because I've rarely felt excluded by virtue of being a woman. (I really do wish I could grow a beard in the Winter, but I accept my lot in life. haha!) That said, there have been questions I haven't raised here because they're really gender specific. That said, the guys here all seem to have women and girls in their lives that could benefit from such discussions. There's lot of talk about gear like packs for women, for instance, but I don't recall seeing a "Dealing with your period on the trail" thread recently, or "Choosing a sleep system when you're going through menopause", or maybe "Which is the best bra for which season?" (Although, Freya's brief membership gave me hope that these might be discussed at some point. LOL!)
     
  6. JOttum

    JOttum Nights Watch Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I absolutely believe the ladies could benefit from their own group, and they should have it...if they want.

    As stated, newer female members might find a group like that a great comfort as they get settled in.

    Vets have a group to talk Vet stuff, the Mora tribe has their own home to talk 24/7 Mora, the Roughians....well, I'm not allowed to say what we discuss there....anyway, I'm in favor, but it doesnt matter if I am or not ;)
     
  7. wallflash

    wallflash Supporter Supporter

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    True . Didn’t think of that . No doubt women members would find it very helpful to get advice from the experienced women here .
     
  8. wallflash

    wallflash Supporter Supporter

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    I thought about midnight restroom trips . In established campgrounds I tend to stay as far away from the RR as possible due to the never ending traffic to them, and if I need to answer nature’s call to dispose of some used beer at 2 AM the RR being way away isn’t an issue . Women might have a different take on going to the woods at 2 AM. :)
     
  9. Punisher

    Punisher Supporter Supporter

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    Do what you want it’s a free country and don’t listen to the guys. Especially me!
     
  10. highlander

    highlander Veni Vidi comedit lardum

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    I think mentoring idea is a great aspect. New female members may not want to express ideas and thoughts in the public forum for fear of being hammered with the vast amount of opinions and ideas thrown around here.
    I.E. New female gun buyer walks into a gun shop...
    One guy says buy this, one guy says buy that. Girl walks out more confused and less confident than when she walked in.
    For some ladies I could see where this could be a great place to weed through the “bulls***ttery.
     
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  11. Captain Airyca

    Captain Airyca Scout

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    This is an excellent example of the potential topics for a women's section on the forum. I can think of at least 10-15 topics right now that would be "women's specific" that might or might not already exist here on the forums but would be rad to be in an easier to find place.

    Thank you. the word "should" is super important. Yeah, in the ideal world we "shouldn't" need a group like this, but the reality is, you gotta be a rather tough gal to break into some of these hobbies. Now, I don't think that BushcraftUSA is too bad as far as that goes, but it is an interesting dynamic when interacting with a mostly male forum. For example, when I'm looking for clothes or a pack, or anything that fits on my body, I have to specify, "hey guys, I'm a girl and I'm looking for this thing, help me out." where a dude posting would be like "hey guys, I need a thing, help me out." the difference is having to call attention to your gender can lead to some interesting responses and results. I've never had troubles here but I have other places on the internet. It means I am usually proceeding with a great amount of caution because I don't want to put the wrong impression in somone's mind. I'm not trying to be like "HEY I'M A GIRL" I'm just trying to find something that's actually going to work for me. A great example of this is finding pants... I have had so many dudes just say wear men's pants. Well, for a lot of gals, that works just fine! but lemme tell ya, it doesn't for me and I don't really want to have to explain the size of my waist or butt or anything else like that to a bunch of dudes because it's just sooooo tempting for people to make inappropriate comments. So, yeah, we shouldn't need a separate space, and generally, for most stuff I'd say we don't. But there are some things that are girl specific. Just how it is.

    You know, I don't know if she's going to respond. Before this thread she had a profile pic and stuff and now it's gone. I would not be surprised or blame her if she left.

    Haha! Smart move on the Canadian thing! Part of me feels similarly but am willing to jump into the fray a bit, hopefully without regrets.... Anywho, you brought up excellent women's specific topics. I have actually been thinking about the pack thing a lot lately. The outdoors retailers are releasing more and more women's stuff, but bushcraft specific? Now that's harder. There are some SWEET packs I wish I could get but they just wouldn't work for my body. That's not a complaint, but talking about it with other bushcrafty gals? Heck yeah I'm down.


    Anyway, this thread is... interesting, but there's my two cents. I'm happy to step in if @Wendy Owens doesn't want to and be involved with a women's group. I totally get it if she's completely turned off by the idea at this point. I don't think an "exclusive" or submission only group is important, but it'd have to be heavily moderated or have some sort of rules or something because although most regulars around here are pretty rad, the internet is still kinda the wild west sometimes. The group would probably most benefit new members and new gals to the hobby of bushcraft. The gals that have been around here a while obviously are probably happy with their experience or they leave. It'd be interesting to try and keep the retention rate on anyone, not just girls, to the forum because it's a wealth of information, but it can be a bit intimidating jumping in.

    Lastly, I have a new bushcrafter friend on the internet (not on here, on social media) that is getting into the hobby and she is attractive, and oh man do people make some inappropriate comments. It's not cool. She and I talk just us two though, and have a blast talking about bushcrafty things. There are just some stuff that's girl specific, and it feels SO cool to have a female friend that's new to the topic and willing to learn. She isn't going to put away her femininity for the sake of the hobby though, and I admire her for that. When I first got started I thought I had to do the way men do it. Well guess what, I didn't have as much fun until I really just was myself. I really value this community, and I love most of y'all involved in it too. Having a women's specific group isn't an attack on all you menfolk out there, it's ladies just trying to break into the space but also just be themselves too.

    I don't know if any of that made sense but there ya go.
     
  12. CoolBreeze135

    CoolBreeze135 Scholarly Woodsman Supporter

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    Excellently said.
     
  13. bacpacjac

    bacpacjac Queen of the Cups Supporter Bushclass I

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    Great post, @Captain Airyca!

    I like to think that there's room here at BCUSA for these kinds of threads and discussions. I guess the question comes down to where to put them and do we make them private? How much backlash do we get either way? (I hate that I ask that, but this thread is a good example of how good intentions can be misinterpreted and cause offense to some. I know. "Canadian much, Jacqui, Eh?") I'm honestly of two minds on this one. Well, multiple minds, actually. I'm supportive though. You've got my vote no matter how it goes and I'd be happy to be a member of such a group. :)
     
  14. central joe

    central joe Wait For Me!! Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Young lass, I think it's an excellent idea. Don't be swayed and carry forth, I support you and your efforts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! joe
     
  15. Captain Airyca

    Captain Airyca Scout

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    Yeah, if someone does move forward with the group, I have mixed feelings about privacy. I don't think exclusivity is critical, but I can see pros and cons to either way. Personally, I think it shouldn't be private (if possible) because it's good for those looking to see what a woman's perspective actually see it. That being said... I get why it might hinder discussion at the same time. I dunno. I think for bushcraft it's not as important to be private, but if it was about something else I might say otherwise. And yeah, this thread is a great example of intentions getting all kinds of mixed up. I get having multiple opinions too. My first gut reaction to this thread was NO because I already am tired of the whole me being a girl even being a "thing" in the first place. But as I kinda hone in on certain topics I realize that it is a little important. It's certainly not like, if there is a girl group I'd never post anywhere else, just maybe with a thought or two here and there.
     
  16. NevadaBlue

    NevadaBlue —- Roughian #7 -— --- Graybeard -— Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    Groups are easy to start. Just do it. No permission required.

    The posts in the new groups are public, but the discussion area is private, members only.
     
  17. CoolBreeze135

    CoolBreeze135 Scholarly Woodsman Supporter

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    This post was so well reasoned and worded that I came back to re-read it. I wanted to especially highlight a few things about which I think you are spot-on.

    1) Even though this place is a overwhelmingly positive and well-mannered outpost, it's still in the middle of the Wild West (aka the internet). You are absolutely right about that. A female bushcrafters group could give a bit of extra confidence to the women who are worried about that. Great point.

    2) I agree with you that this thread may have driven @Wendy Owens away. While I wouldn't blame her for leaving after this, I really hope she doesn't. If she does, I think that our community should have some collective regret.

    3) There is definitely plenty of female-specific hiking/camping gear out there, but not so much in the bushcraft side of the market. I agree with your observation there.

    4) Sorry about the way your friend is treated. Some people are one-dimensional and just plain rude. The cool thing about this forum is that a member can sign up, ask questions, answer questions, learn, and engage without divulging any personal info or photos of themselves if they don't want to (this is what makes us different from social media, which seems to be primarily about sharing personal info). Here, there is (theoretically) much less risk of being treated differently because of the way we look (or don't look). I'm not necessarily saying you should convince your friend to join the forum (though she is certainly welcome), but rather that what we have going on is a great alternative to social media for those who want to quietly learn for a while (that's the way I started out). Adding a female bushcrafters group seems like it would only advance our mission and help facilitate a place for all newcomers to learn while they are still gaining confidence.

    5) As you already found out, you should absolutely NOT be pressured into doing bushcraft the way that men do. In an even broader sense, none of us should feel pressured to do bushcraft they way that anyone else does. Bushcraft is a perfect world for hike-your-own-hike to be the prevailing rule. I think encouraging women to get into bushcraft (while keeping HYOH as a central idea) is a great argument for the formation of the group.

    Lastly, you seem to have a really good grasp on this. For what it's worth, I think you would be a good "leader/administrater/whatever it's called" for the group. I support your campaign. :dblthumb:

    Yeah...I'm kind of disappointed in the way this thread unfolded. I hope we can learn from it, though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
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  18. Wasp

    Wasp DOWN IN DIXIE Hobbyist Supporter

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    Where did it unravel?
     
  19. CoolBreeze135

    CoolBreeze135 Scholarly Woodsman Supporter

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    Just using the word "unraveled" as a synonym for unfolded/happened/progressed/proceeded/transpired. I'll change the word for clarity. My point was that I am kind of disappointed that this thread progressed in a way that included some argument and controversy, as this doesn't seem like a controversial subject in the slightest.
     
  20. JC1

    JC1 Guide

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    I'd like to see a "Single Ladies of Alaska" group started :D
     
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  21. wallflash

    wallflash Supporter Supporter

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    I don’t think the topic itself has been all that controversial. A couple of mild comments, but nothing really harsh. Most, including me from my very first post, have been very supportive of the idea. The arguing, which I was involved in, stemmed from her insisting she didn’t write and say something she obviously did, and that another poster apparently didn’t care for and made a comment about , and continuing to insist she didn’t even as photographic proof was offered by one member and I myself twice pointed out exactly where she did say it . When I finally asked her if it wasn’t her that wrote the “ladies only “ comment under the video she deleted a post in which she insisted a third or 4th time that she never said such a thing ( but which is still quoted in my response) and apparently left the thread .

    But the topic itself, it’s not controversial. Let’s do it !
     
  22. CoolBreeze135

    CoolBreeze135 Scholarly Woodsman Supporter

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    I know you didn't oppose the idea itself, but that's not the only kind of thing I was talking about. No hard feelings towards you (or anyone else for that matter), but I'm just bummed that the arguments even happened because they made this feel like a pretty bumpy thread when it didn't need to be.

    This thread started out with a question: "Who would be interested in a women's bushcraft group?"

    Most have the answers should have been "Sounds like a great idea! I'm in!" or even "I'm a woman, but I don't particularly feel like we need a separate space." However, there's been a lot of other noise that seems to have left a bad taste in the mouth of a few members. I think that's something that should be regretted.
     
  23. NJHeart2Heart

    NJHeart2Heart Backyard Bushcrafter Supporter

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    Well. I do sign off with roses :D:D

    :40::40:
     
  24. cbrianroll

    cbrianroll Professional Tinkerer Supporter

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    I think I'll add some to mine too....
     
  25. mtnoutdoors

    mtnoutdoors Prov 27:17 Supporter

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    Go for it. Prov 27:17
     
  26. wallflash

    wallflash Supporter Supporter

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    OK, OK , I’m sorry about the mankini. Even my eyes hurt from that .
     
  27. CoolBreeze135

    CoolBreeze135 Scholarly Woodsman Supporter

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    :)
     
  28. Wasp

    Wasp DOWN IN DIXIE Hobbyist Supporter

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    Well you regret it then and stop putting it on someone else.

    Wendy said "Womens Only" which I thought I read then I couldn't find it so I deleted my comment. Then it was shown by someone else that she did infact say it.
    All I said in my original (first) post was it 'didn't sound good to have an exclusive group. Should we have a mens only group too'? When I couldn't find the exclusive part which I knew I'd seen I retracted what I said because it sounded like I was just trying to start an argument which I never was.

    I thought I was being reasonable by suggesting we shouldn't have a women's exclusive group. I thought we were pretty accepting and even encouraging of the women at BCUSA, at least in every thread I've ever read which has been a lot. Like I said above, I've never seen a group that was named/geared towards men that wouldn't allow women to participate, or more likely encourage it.

    I think there's a reason to have groups based on sex. But not exclusive here. You don't think a man could benefit from asking questions regarding women in the outdoors? I've seen several threads about peeing for daughters, firearms for wives, and several more that were written by men this year, if it was an exclusive group that wouldn't be possible except in the general area.

    I think theres a place for exclusive groups too, like boy scouts, girl scouts, Masons and Eastern Star, Football, etc and with good reason. In this forum there is no way with the current software "glitch" to make a group completely private, anyone can post, but only members can start threads.

    Would you really be okay with exclusive groups here? A women only group? Men only group? By race?

    I thought I was worth talking about so I brought it up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
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  29. wallflash

    wallflash Supporter Supporter

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    I’m perfectly fine with a women’s only group. I would even suggest to them that they make it that way . If they want a guys opinion on a subject that comes up in the ladies group they have the general area to ask it in. If a guy wants to ask a woman a question same thing . Most of the time no doubt the women will be in the general area anyway . But just as I believe boys should have a “ boy only” org if they wish , I think ladies here should have a ladies only group if they wish .

    It is, after all, just a discussion group . Nothing at all wrong with a discussion group focusing on like minded members . The 2A group does, the Masons do, and so on. Ladies only is just a continuation of the same thing .
     
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  30. Birding and Bushcraft

    Birding and Bushcraft Tinder Gatherer

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    The negativity in this thread is exactly while I think you idea is important.
     
  31. BradGad

    BradGad Supporter Supporter

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    I think it would be a great thing if it were an invite-only group and only our bushcraft sisters. No guys.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  32. Wasp

    Wasp DOWN IN DIXIE Hobbyist Supporter

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    Where do you see negativity?
     
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  33. cbrianroll

    cbrianroll Professional Tinkerer Supporter

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    Should it be this complicated.....I have a wife and daughters, There are I things I cant answer and dont need to know...that's where a womans group comes in. I dont think the forum will sease to exist because I cant read about or answer topics about...insert woman oy issue. There are already groups that are invite only? Seams to be private then.....

    I hope someone starts one, maybe my daughters will join....
     
  34. Sefton

    Sefton Supporter Supporter

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    A women starts a discussion about starting a women's group , and then the men get involved. :33:

    Exactly WHY there should be a women's only group. :14:

    Unbelievable. :rolleyes:
     
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  35. wallflash

    wallflash Supporter Supporter

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    A quick informal count by me shows roughly about 23 men in favor to about 2 who question the need . So the men got “involved “ to overwhelmingly show support and encouragement for the idea .
     
  36. CoolBreeze135

    CoolBreeze135 Scholarly Woodsman Supporter

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    I joined the conversation after you deleted your first post. I had no idea what you had previously posted, so nothing I said could have been directed towards you.

    But since you ask, I really would be okay with a women only group. Doesn't seem like a big deal at all.

    It seems you aren't wrong! The evidence is right in front of our noses. I guess it's partially my fault, then! I probably should have kept my mouth shut hands off the keyboard. This is a good reminder for me to do so!
     
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  37. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    There is no try. There is only do or do not.
    Someone just start a group, see how it works.
     
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  38. rbinhood

    rbinhood Scout

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    That picture is all the reason anyone needs for a ladies only group.
     
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  39. wallflash

    wallflash Supporter Supporter

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    Yeah Borat isn’t for everyone :)
     
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  40. Captain Airyca

    Captain Airyca Scout

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    I'm going to once my kiddo goes to bed.
     
  41. MommaJ

    MommaJ Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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  42. Captain Airyca

    Captain Airyca Scout

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    DavidJAFO, MommaJ, Bobsdock and 4 others like this.
  43. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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  44. MrFixIt

    MrFixIt Old Jarhead LB#42 Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    It appears that @Wendy Owens has “limited” her profile and there is no way to send her a PM...:(
    I hope she returns as I found her posts very helpful.
    If you read this Wendy please come back!
     
  45. wallflash

    wallflash Supporter Supporter

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    Her profile has been limited from long ago, probably the beginning of her being here . Someone said she deleted her avatar picture , so she may indeed be gone , but the limiting of her profile access isn’t in response to this thread .
     
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  46. Bobsdock

    Bobsdock So long, and thanks for all the fish Supporter

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  47. Bobsdock

    Bobsdock So long, and thanks for all the fish Supporter

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    I hope that she returns also. I enjoyed her posts.
     
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  48. rbinhood

    rbinhood Scout

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    That's why there was a need for a woman's group. Some lady makes a suggestion and immediately some man questions it, in the process making the woman wonder whether she really belongs here. Anyone who's interested in bushcraft belongs here, regardless of their gender.
     
  49. salty dog

    salty dog Supporter Supporter

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    I think it's a good idea and I wish it well. From my necessarily male perspective, it seems a place to look at things from a female perspective without numerous, well meaning but unneeded, male perspectives would be a welcome spot.
     
  50. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    The gender issue was not a factor, and her suggestion was questioned ONLY on the basis of her using the phrase "Ladies Only", which she repeatedly denied, while it was plainly there in her post. Instead of discussing whether women only was a good choice the discussion was sidetracked by the issue of what she wrote.

    A Ladies/Womens group was clearly supported by 90 plus percent of the posts. Whether it should be restricted to women only or an open group is an issue for the group owner. Personally I would like two groups, one for women only, one open for men as well. See which one best serves the members over time.
     
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