Wound care in the bush

Discussion in 'Bush Medicine' started by Jason, Oct 25, 2008.

  1. TheViking

    TheViking Tracker

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    You mean people aren't truthful with others when behind a electronic device and anonymity....
     
  2. JAY

    JAY Guide

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    I have a limited first aid kit and always have neosporin. but I have added a small quanity of a old time product called "ASAP silver solution" which is said to be a good antibiotic, for external use as well as internal. as long as you don't consume to much and your skin turns blue. Does anyone have any info on this product as to how effective it can be. I purchased mine from emergency essentials.
     
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  3. DBX

    DBX Guide

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    I have no information on the silver solution. But I have heard good things about silver.
    I'll stick with Betidine, effective, cheap, and readily available.
    And can be used for water purification.
     
  4. Bushyhippie

    Bushyhippie Tracker

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    Very interesting info, glad I took the time to read a better part of this tread.
     
  5. Seacapt.

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    Cayenne pepper. Good with some types of food also.
     
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  6. Ernie Ohm

    Ernie Ohm Tinder Gatherer

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    Oh yes, lots of bacteria. I was bitten a few months back and that sucker took a good 3 weeks to finally quit scabbing.Now i have a lovely purple bite mark for ever and ever. My big saving graces were the God given abilities to heal quickly with a very strong immune system.
     
  7. FullSpectrumSurvivalist

    FullSpectrumSurvivalist Tracker

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    I did this about 3 weeks ago on a cut on my pointing finger, except I used Gorilla glue. I found the bead of glue allowed me to use that finger sooner, could hardly even write till I did that. Cut barely even visible now. All day it kept bleeding till I used the glue.
     
  8. FullSpectrumSurvivalist

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    Silver solution works, especially good on burns.
     
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  9. FullSpectrumSurvivalist

    FullSpectrumSurvivalist Tracker

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  10. Togus

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    If anyone experiences a large deep penetrating wound needing stitches or [closure], I'd recommend getting to an ER. Pressure on the wound and clean dressing and get help. I've met some pretty rough and tough people, but doubt any of them could endure stitching themselves. Also, if you are going to close a wound make real sure it has been thoroughly cleaned and irrigated with clean or sterile water. The last thing thing you want to do is close in any "bugs" and have them proliferate inside you. I have seen people develop rapid infections that has developed into sepsis [systemic infection leading to complete organ failure]. Due to the overuse of antibiotics and subsequent development of superbugs [antibiotic resistant infections] I don't know any doctor who would write a script prophylactically, essentially leaving the decision to take them up to the consumer. I would leave the stitching to a trained medic/nurse/PA, NP, MD, or D.O. who has access to sterile suture kits, lidocaine, syringes, and sterile dressings. Signs and symptoms of localized infections are redness, swelling, excessive warmth, discharge, increased pain, and sometimes foul odors. Systemic infections often manifest with a fever. Localized infections need treatment, but generally you have time. If a fever develops it's emergent. I agree carrying a first aid kit with sterile dressings and streri-strips is a essential. Also, be up to date on tetanus vaccines. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
     
  11. Flint_2016

    Flint_2016 Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Thanks for sharing.I had no idea you needed 3-5 liters more or less to irrigate a wound.I like the idea of requesting antibiotics from your doctor.That's one for my list when I see him next.I try to be careful as mice on safety around/at my shelter when I'm using cutting tools.My ax is sharp as hell,not to mention my knives,and shudder to even think of a serious wound.I don't have staples,just butterfly enclosures,and bandage.On my list will be a bottle of Hydrogen Peroxide.
     
  12. Flint_2016

    Flint_2016 Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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  13. Flint_2016

    Flint_2016 Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I asked my doctor for extra antibiotics but he wouldn't prescribe them.Not to mention they expire
     
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  14. Harper

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  15. Jubals Way

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    That was some real good info , thank you for sharing :) I was wondering what you think about adding betadine solution added to the wound irrigation solution , and is it ok to use a real soft brush to clean out the wound ( such as with an axe )
     
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  16. jackjack

    jackjack "The right tool for the right job" Supporter

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    I recommend first aid classes and more. you can read and prepare some but in the wilderness nothing ever happens that may not become really bad.

    We work with AXES and SAWS, and falling trees, and heavy loads where we break and sprain limbs, and FIRE, and STORMS, and Water, Hypothermia. Absolutely positively please spend as much time knowing how to handle these things as how to start a fire. If you go out and are responsible for a family, you REALLY need top know much more.

    When I was much younger I was in Civil Air Patrol and received several levels of first aid training, including ground team style training where we had to triage, treat, and evacuate people under difficult circumstances from remote locations. We learned how to bind broken bones, stabilize the spine and neck, all these things become important in different ways in the wilderness. I would recommend anyone get some of this training, not just in a classroom, but actual situational practice." I'd just carry him out on a litter" becomes very difficult in the wilderness. from dirty hands that need to be cleaned while dressing a wound to keeping sand out , to protecting your own safety when helping others, to lowering people down hills in a made stretcher, all these things.

    I totally recommend this as an anxiety reducer and a safety measure.

    My best first aid equipment is A roll of Duct tape, it is an amazing tool in the wilderness. No first aid kit is complete without the new good stuff. it will close a gash, and it will stabilize anything.
     
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  17. Danny Boy

    Danny Boy Tracker

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    Much truth in this. I pick up duct tape rolls from the dollar store, they usually have several different colors to choose from. I use the camo for my trips into the woods, and keep red or orange in my vehicle kit.

     
  18. charlesmc2

    charlesmc2 Scout

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    I am 66 and my mother was 45 when I was born. My father's mother was born in the 1870's. She spent a lot of her time with me when I was a kid. Learned a lot from her, most of it still good even though she did not have lots of formal education. Come to think of it I was around a good number of folks born in the last two or three decades of 1800's. All of them were bright, mostly self-educated folks. Abe Lincoln, if I recall correctly was self educated past 3rd grade or so. Not many folks with lots of degrees after their name are not nearly so well educated as he. But I digress.

    Whenever I cut myself she would say, "let it bleed good, so it won't get infected." And my recollection is that cuts that bled did not have a problem with any kind of infection. I think this supports the irrigation is a must comments.

    Also, I believe the urine for irrigation was taught to military people who might be in captivity or otherwise unable to obtain sterile water for washing out any wounds they might have. This is not first hand info, by the way.
     
  19. BetterNotBitterIsSurvival

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    I am a little late to this party but thought I would still add something to think about when wondering whether it is a good idea to use urine to irrigate a wound. Consider this: while the urine itself may be considered sterile - the delivery system is NOT. Ever had to provide a CLEAN CATCH urine specimen at a doctor appointment? Now imagine being, filthy out in the backwoods somewhere and attempting to get a clean catch to irrigate an open wound. It would be almost impossible to obtain urine that has not been been contaminated by contact with the external skin/mucous membrane. Additionally, the container used to collect the urine would need to be sterilized.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
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  20. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    @BetterNotBitterIsSurvival
    Urine is sterile as long as the person has nothing going on with them.
    Infection, std's, you name it...

    I think you would be hard pressed to find a situation that you had the ability to produce urine but not obtain a source of clean water.

    Hypothetical
    If I got a nasty substance in my eye...
    I would rather have a 1/2 drank water bottle poured in it than someone pissing in my eye.
    Just sayin.
     
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  21. BetterNotBitterIsSurvival

    BetterNotBitterIsSurvival Supporter Supporter

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    That is exactly the point I was making! I was saying that even if urine is considered sterile it would be nearly impossible to avoid contamination of the urine due to the fact that both the external anatomy and the container are NOT sterile and it would be impossible in such an environment to adequately clean and sanitize both the body and the container. Seriously if you had the resources (water, heat, cleansers etc...) to clean the external anatomy and collection container than you have what is required to use water to clean and flush the wound! :D
     
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  22. Medicine maker

    Medicine maker Guide

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    Seconded and tripled. In use for 7 years now. More or less the only thing in my med kit that sees use. Super simple and sustainable. Burn is the same as any other disinfectant.
     
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  23. Terasec

    Terasec Guide

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    urine is not sterile,
    and its warm temp is a breading ground for bacteria,
    don't flush the toilet and see how long urine takes to get funky,
    as compared to regular toilet water
    others mentioned cleaning the wound, that is your best option, flush the wound with cleanest water possible,
    10% iodine solution should be part of larger FAK for this,
    and bandage the wound, do not close the wound via stitches or butterfly bandage, as that leaves a closed moist pocket for bacteria to grow
    wounds should heal from bottom layer up, not top layer down
     
  24. Jason

    Jason Founder Staff Member Administrator Vendor

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    Males generally deliver fairly sterile urine specimens due to superior plumbing, females not so much. No way to know for sure unless the urine looks cloudy and technically that doesn’t even mean it’s infected. I see plenty of clean urine cultures delivered via clean catch. If all urine was full of bacteria there would be no point in taking urine specimens to look for infection since they’d all have high bacteria levels. Cultures are usually only triggered when certain criteria are met such as so many visible bacteria per high power field or lab values are off. Nothing is completely sterile especially in the field, but generally you need a certain level of bacterial load to develop infection. I still don’t advocate peeing on a wound. Tap water contains a certain level bacteria and I’d have no issue using it to irrigate a wound.

    And there’s nothing wrong with closing wounds after a proper irrigation in the field if you do it correctly. Just have to know what you’re doing and why and all can be well. I’ve done it for my friends and they healed just fine. If there’s any doubt in your mind then clean it, dress it, and get real medical attention.

    Wounds can heal in many ways including bottom up or filling (second intention/granulation) or side to side (first intention) depending on type of wound, circumstances, and closure techniques. I’m generalizing but wound classification is not really relevant in this scenario.
     
  25. salvo

    salvo Tracker

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  26. BradGad

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    So... an old thread that has resurfaced... I haven’t read it but do want to look through it.

    One quick thought first though: Tea tree oil or oil of oregano. I didn’t know about these when this thread was spawned but I do now. Both are antmicrobial, antibacterial, and antiviral. Neither destroys tissues that are busy trying to heal like chemical antiseptics do. I think these are probably the only two (known) substances on our planet than can check all these boxes.

    And not for just in the bush. Once a week or so, I put six drops of oil of oregano in warm water in a tooth mug, stir it with my toothbrush, and drink it down. Keeps my toothbrush sanitary and I don’t get infectious ailments anymore. I just don’t. I used to.

    And a nice slim sturdy rollerball bottle of tea tree oil now lives in my FAK.
     
  27. Jason

    Jason Founder Staff Member Administrator Vendor

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    Steri strips and mastisol will do the same thing as those zip stitches.
     
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  28. arleigh

    arleigh Guide

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    I make and use colloidal silver on all my injuries . It does nothing aggressive against the skin and can be consumed orally .
    There is no expiration date and can be stored any where you might store water, being distilled water it is made in .
    No taste or flavor ( other than distilled water) or color.
    A little history,
    During the civil war silver was applied to amputations and the silver prevented infection . Doctors tried to grind it ,but cold not get it small enough tot get in the bloodstream .
    Russia during the cold war was experimenting with bacterial warfare and needed an antibiotic . they discovered that by using electrolysis silver could be broken down to the molecular level and capable of getting into blood stream, able to deal with any bacteria . years later those with AIDS call it the second immune system.
    Made wrong ones skin can turn grey , abused like any thing else there are consequences but even that one is still alive , and not the alternative .death.
    Made right and even over used, there are no adverse side effects certainly not those of modern medicine . Being that is kills all bacteria if consumed ,one needs to take a probiotic to replace the bacteria in the intestines .
    I have been using and making my own for at least 20 years . Not that I need it for severe health issues but the occasional burn, road rash, and a whole list of things people turn to other products for. I had a kitten given to me that had distemper and put colloidal silver in her water and some in her eyes and in a day she was all cleared up and normal .
    Any of you familiar with road rash know how serious it is and the colloidal silver did the job .it's what I washed all the wounds out with .
    Butterfly closures are generally enough for many cuts ,but in an out door environment and under extreme force of use some shielding is valuable with some CS in it.
    I made several of these kits for my family so they can make their own .
    DSCN4612.JPG
    2 - 1/10 oz. pure silver , a 5 volt solar panel and alligator clamps along with instructions .
     
  29. Crowe

    Crowe Tracker

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    Self help in the bush for bleeding, about two hours from definitive care. Would include irrigation to /of the site to clean and establish the extent of the injury and the use of a pressure bandage with FIRE ASH to aid coagulation.
    Those with spirit burners need not apply.
     
  30. rmorgan736

    rmorgan736 Scout

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    clean it out with any type of alcohol if you have honey or ginger powder.......)i carry both) put that on cover it with a tea bag and a clean bandage and you are good to go..........chewing tobacco and a clean bandage will do in a pinch.
     
  31. rmorgan736

    rmorgan736 Scout

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    if you can find clean fresh spider webs they will help a wound clot up real quick.....
     
  32. Harper

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    I know that they have been using them for a couple thousand years--but its just not going to happen for me.

    I would avoid tobacco too because of how they grow it and what they put into it.

    Ginger (and its cousin, Turmeric) is good. So is honey--as long it is 100% honey.

    Cayenne is very good though it may have a burning sensation.

    One thing I've been doing is using Everclear for my alcohol stoves. A small flask of it pulls double duty with its potential for First Aid uses. It is the like the SAK of stove fuels. Non-toxic when it burns, too.
     
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  33. saxonaxe

    saxonaxe Scout

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    I've learned a lot from this thread, both good advice and what to avoid. My first aid skills are woefully out of date, a problem I plan to rectify with a course this Spring.
    Something which occurs to me when I read of injuries suffered in the wild is the possible consequences, not only of incorrect treatment but the result of becoming reduced in mobility or incapacitated completely.

    A couple of winters past, I remember reading of a young School Teacher who had gone back packing in the mountainous region of Wales known as the Brecon Beacons. After being reported missing she was found by a Mountain Rescue Team huddled amongst rocks at the bottom of a Scree slope. She had died of exposure and an examination showed she had suffered a fractured ankle, it was found that the cold had also affected her 'phones effectiveness. She was properly dressed for the conditions but carried no emergency shelter of any kind.

    Last summer I was back packing in the flat, low lying Fen area in the East of England and suffered a foot injury. Heavy weight of Bergan, distance and heat softened feet resulted in the skin and flesh splitting quite suddenly. ( My Medic mate said later, age should also be taken in account...and he was not referring to my walking boots either...:18: )
    [​IMG]

    It was on the hottest recorded day of the year, close to 100 F. I was as planned at that point about 6 miles from water and somewhere to camp. 6 miles, under those conditions, just over a couple of hours normally, at most. I cleaned the injury and put a non adhesive dressing on it, but walking with a heavy pack was a real ordeal.
    No water source locally, I was short of water and a painful and energy sapping detour of about 2 miles to what transpired to be derelict farm buildings with no water, just added to the problem. Miles of dry woodland and rough pasture land.
    [​IMG]

    I made it to water and a camp site in just under six hours. Very dehydrated, and shivering from the onset of heat exhaustion I remember finding it difficult to focus my eyes when attempting to read my map.

    A half inch split in my foot !! It would have been easier if I had fallen and broken an arm ...:D
    On a more serious note, the lesson I learned was that it does not have to be a significant injury to potentially cause a real problem when not close to assistance.
     
  34. Sandcut

    Sandcut Sed ego sum homo indomitus Vendor

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    I would discourage placing ash into a wound.

    Any wound with non-severe bleeding will be controllable with simple direct pressure. Irrigation occurs AFTER bleeding is stopped in order to remove debris and clotted blood, prior to bandaging.

    Irrigation is intended to remove any substrate for bacteria. Intoducing ash into a wound is simply inoculating the wound with bacteria or bacterial substrate, which would promote infection.
     
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  35. Craig Brown

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    I buried a treble hook with a 3 pound live bass in the web of my palm once while fishing from a canoe. After killing and removing the fish, lure, and line I was down to the hook. Because of the angle I could not push the hook through and clip to remove. This was on a hot august day in a smelly flooded fetid water filled coal strip pit. I was extremely concerned about infection as I have known a couple of people that developed major infections from similar injuries. I had a small bottle of 98 percent hand sanitizer which I applied all of it on the area. I also had a tube of neosporin in the tackle box and applied a giant gob of it around the puncture area. At the time these were the only two first aid items I had. Drove 25 miles to clinic and the doc surgically removed the hook by piercing thru the other side with a very large syringe needle. Irrigated it thoroughly with saline solution and betadine. Got a tetanus shot and an antibiotic about $600 worth of work. Zero infection healed perfectly. I’ve been told the hand sanitizer is not the best so in addition to a better first aid kit I now keep a bottle of betadine and some blood clotting powder in my truck. I was very glad I had the neosporin I had just put it in my tackle box a couple of weeks before. Yeah, I’m a little paranoid but I know someone that was hospitalized due to infection from a minor cut while loading a canoe on a local river. Doc told him if he had promptly applied an OTC antibiotic cream when it happened likely there would have been no infection.
     

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