“What is the purpose of this?”


oldpagan

oldpagan

Nature Worshiping Druid
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Dec 18, 2010
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Tulsa, Ok
I as a rule carry a PSK and a Mora with me when I travel or leave the house other than to go to work. Everyone here at BCUSA understands the purpose and use of having a simple knife, and thus the basis of my question and post.

Some time ago my wife and I had taken a cruise and were re-entering the ship from one of the excursions we had taken. I had the PSK and Mora in a civilian model camelbak and one of the ship security guys pulled the camelbak from the x-ray machine and fished the Mora out and begin looking at it. In a stern somewhat accusatory tone he asked, “What is the purpose of this?” Now I try to have good manners and avoid being an “ugly American” and I was at a loss to understand his question. I was thinking “it’s a knife, what do you think its purpose is”, but didn’t think that would be polite or appropriate. So I explained that I always carry it along with the compass and fire making items, at which he again with even more emphasis asked “but what it the purpose of this”? At this point I am lost as to what to say to this guy, he then measures the blade next to a four inch line they had on the x-ray machine and he then said “If this was longer than four inches I could take it” I said ok… And he repeated himself again. At this point I was about to tell him to keep the six dollar knife and be done with it. So he hands the Mora to me and dismisses me with a “you can go”.

I have a cruise coming up next month, and I will again toss the Mora and PSK in the camelbak to carry when I disembark for whatever the days adventure is, my question to all of you is if I again get asked “what is the purpose of this” in regards to the Mora when re-boarding the ship, what should I say? How do you simply explain what we all know to someone that doesn’t do Bushcraft?

Thanks!
Oldpagan
 
Contact the cruise line before you go and ask if it's okay. If they say it's okay then just explain to the guy that you checked the rules and you aren't violating any rules. If they say you can't then you probably shouldn't bring it. Like you said though, it's a cheap knife so if they take it it's no big deal.
I can relate to your difficulties though. I often find myself trying to hide my knives and things like that unless people know me pretty well. It's not like i'm carrying a machete or anything, but people still react funny when they see my pocket knife.
Good luck, and have an awesome trip!
 
Take a SAK next time.

For good or for ill, fixed blades draw attention that is unneeded and unwanted.

Or, since you are and 'Old Pagan' - one who chooses the raven for his avatar - you obviously have an affinity for things Nordic. What about an EKA Swede 88 or 90? Either of those would server you well without being obtrusive if you would rather carry a Nordic analogue to the SAK.
 
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I carry an Opinel when I travel. They're light, take a great edge, are cheap enough to throw away if necessary and are about as non threatening as a knife can be.
 
Tell them that the purpose of the knife is to peel fruit and to slice bread and cheese.

They are looking for that explanation.

Do not say that it "is carried in case I get lost and have to defend myself". That answer will lose you your knife. As said before, carry a SAK. Less threatening and more universally recognized.
 
The purpose is that it is a tool, for me to be able to whittle or carve, cut rope,and do leather work, all hobbies of mine. Why, is there a problem with it legally ?
 
I'm also doing the cruise thing soon...first time, and they have a strict "no blade" policy...really pisses me off. If they are worried about a fat guy with a Case folder hijacking a ka-billion ton ocean vessel, then they need to just keep throwing steamed shrimp and cocktail sauce at me...problem solved. I hate having no protection or tools with me. I am actively thinking of on board alternatives...
 
I would like to be wrong, but you may have encountered an American-baiting officious intimidating twit. I may have a similar trip in the future, and your experience reminds me to correspond in advance - so that I may counter the initial question with an authoritative reply in precise accordance with actual policy. I hope you fare better the next time.
 
Mooncrow said:
I'm also doing the cruise thing soon...first time, and they have a strict "no blade" policy...really pisses me off. If they are worried about a fat guy with a Case folder hijacking a ka-billion ton ocean vessel, then they need to just keep throwing steamed shrimp and cocktail sauce at me...problem solved. I hate having no protection or tools with me. I am actively thinking of on board alternatives...
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No steak knives on the ship ?

Carry a nice solid wooden cane, perhaps with a heavier brass head piece. Straight or curved. Better protection than a knife, and legal almost anywhere. (Keep a knee brace in your luggage.)
 
GreyOne said:
No steak knives on the ship ?

Carry a nice solid wooden cane, perhaps with a heavier brass head piece. Straight or curved. Better protection than a knife, and legal almost anywhere. (Keep a knee brace in your luggage.)
Click to expand...

Excellent point, and I wonder if they have ever given any thought to the formidable nature of a pair of size 12 Justin cowboy boots - held in the hand?
 
Mooncrow said:
I am actively thinking of on board alternatives...
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I would just borrow an onboard steak knife for the duration of the cruise.

Disclaimer: I am not saying steal the steak knife. I am saying borrow it for the duration of the cruise and politely leave it in your room for the cleaning crew to take back to the kitchen. I would not condone stealing from anyone.
 
Had the same thing happen a couple of years ago. In my case it was a cheap folder. Seems like the Leatherman I was carrying was not a concern. He kept my folder and told me I could have it back after the cruise. I just told him Merry Christmas and went back to our cabin and got the spare folder I had packed for that purpose.
 
I'm right there with you...there are plenty of viable things to use for tools and weapons...it's all about situational awarness and just going into it knowing you've got to check your surroundings. I'm more concerned with the off ship, port contingencies...but the same rules apply, I guess...as long as the bad guys don't lay down a salvo of steamed shrimp and cocktail sauce, before robbing me....
 
oldpagan said:
I have a cruise coming up next month, and I will again toss the Mora and PSK in the camelbak to carry when I disembark for whatever the days adventure is, my question to all of you is if I again get asked “what is the purpose of this” in regards to the Mora when re-boarding the ship, what should I say? How do you simply explain what we all know to someone that doesn’t do Bushcraft?

Thanks!
Oldpagan
Click to expand...

My knife is a tool and that's what I tell folks. I've never been questioned in the manner you were but my knife is still a tool.

That's what I would tell them and if they ask "a tool for what kind of work", I'd tell them. If they can't fathom it, it ain't on you.
 
I think Arctxbushman may have hit the nail on the head with the “bored with their job and just wants to mess with someone” thought.

From Carnival’s website:
Prohibited Items – will be disposed of prior to boarding:
• Knives with blades longer than four (4) inches ( Recreational dive knives are allowed but must be held in the custody of the Guest Services Manager or Chief Security Officer and must be checked out/in by the owner for dive excursions during the cruise.)

I'll print the page that this is listed on and carry it with me next time. I'll use the "its for cutting bread and cheese" explanation first and if that fails to make them happy I'll break out their policy.
 
GreyOne said:
No steak knives on the ship ?

Carry a nice solid wooden cane, perhaps with a heavier brass head piece. Straight or curved. Better protection than a knife, and legal almost anywhere. (Keep a knee brace in your luggage.)
Click to expand...

I've seen self-defense applications with a simple wooden cane...WOW! Easy and devestating.

Mooncrow said:
...If they are worried about a fat guy with a Case folder hijacking a ka-billion ton ocean vessel, then they need to just keep throwing steamed shrimp and cocktail sauce at me...problem solved...
Click to expand...

That would keep me content too!!!

What about just ripping a soda can in half for am improvised knife? Time-honored broken beer (or wine) bottle? Weaponry abounds with a tinge of imagination and some situational awareness.

I still subscribe to the Colt SAA school of thought for weaponry...arm everyone and everyone will settle right down once the first few troublemakers go down.

Never saw the threat of a knife. Grab a club. Bigger, better smasher. Throw rocks, they can't get close enough to use the blade. Bust the arm with a rock, club or a chair. Had a guy try to carjack me one night. Grabbed his arm and shoved it against the door frame of my truck and dumped the clutch. Dropped the guy at third gear and sold the crappy folder to a pawn shop the next day.
 
I'm sure I'm in the minority here but if I am on a cruise, I am not bushcrafting. I don't need to carry my Mora or my fire kit, char cloth, firesteel, or cotton balls soaked in vaseline. But if I did, I would expect to be questioned....simple as that.
 
dwightp said:
I'm sure I'm in the minority here but if I am on a cruise, I am not bushcrafting. I don't need to carry my Mora or my fire kit, char cloth, firesteel, or cotton balls soaked in vaseline. But if I did, I would expect to be questioned....simple as that.
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Even when you -and the "officer"- both KNOW that the item is not prohibited by the rules, and in fact is explicitly within a stated length limit ?

No. And if it were over the limit, there is still no need, or purpose is questioning the purpose. Either it is prohibited on its face, and you forbid it, or it is allowed, and you hand it back. The purpose of an item would not be any of the security officers business.

A ships security officer who asked me such a question would be reported immediately to the Head of Security, and to the Steward or First Officer. That gambit was nothing more than an attempt at getting a bribe, or being told he could "keep" the knife. I would gladly trade him the knife for his job, and could likely make it stick, since I know the right terms to use .
 
GreyOne said:
A ships security officer who asked me such a question would be reported immediately to the Head of Security, and to the Steward or First Officer. That gambit was nothing more than an attempt at getting a bribe, or being told he could "keep" the knife. I would gladly trade him the knife for his job, and could likely make it stick, since I know the right terms to use .
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Fine........you do that and tie yourself up for an hour or so proving a point. If I'm on a cruise, I want to spend my time doing something other than that.......carrying a Mora or firekit on a cruise ain't real high on my list...........but to each his own.
 
dwightp said:
Fine........you do that and tie yourself up for an hour or so proving a point. If I'm on a cruise, I want to spend my time doing something other than that.......carrying a Mora or firekit on a cruise ain't real high on my list...........but to each his own.
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Carrying what I want , as long as it is legal, seems a reasonable thing for a free man to do.

As for tying myself up, if it is , as in the instant case, upon return to the ship, I likely am not missing much , and can deal with the matter at my convenience over the next day. Just depends on how well you tolerate parasites and power tripping little brass hats. The cruise line is a company , and they do not need people who draw complaints or even suspicion of trying to get "mordida".
 
oldpagan said:
I think Arctxbushman may have hit the nail on the head with the “bored with their job and just wants to mess with someone” thought.

From Carnival’s website:
Prohibited Items – will be disposed of prior to boarding:
• Knives with blades longer than four (4) inches ( Recreational dive knives are allowed but must be held in the custody of the Guest Services Manager or Chief Security Officer and must be checked out/in by the owner for dive excursions during the cruise.)

I'll print the page that this is listed on and carry it with me next time. I'll use the "its for cutting bread and cheese" explanation first and if that fails to make them happy I'll break out their policy.
Click to expand...

Do print it, and I also suggest folding it up and carrying it in your sheath. That way when some over-officious twit with an attitude problem pulls the knife out to inspect it, he has the policy at hand as well.
 
Simply explain it is a tool used for peeling fruit and slicing cheese and meat, since plastic utensils break so easily. No need to go into detail, since the non-'crafter won't understand anyway.
 
Carry on a 10 inch blade. They'll never notice the Mora :D ...But, I do agree with NJWHN95's post. You're legal.
 
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