440c for Bushcraft???


MTplainsman

MTplainsman

Bushcrafter from the "naked" land...........
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I don't seem to hear much mentioned on this steel type any more when talking about Bushcraft. Does 440c have a place in your outdoors kit? I know it has been a popular steel for hunting knives for a long time. Whats your thoughts on this steel for the outdoorsman?
 
Some 440 types are just fine in my book - especially if heat treated by Paul Bos.
Other types of modern steel may hold an edge longer along with other advantages but many turn up their noses at 440, forgetting that it worked for generations hunting, building shelters, making food. This in the hands of people who didnt realize, that their steel was 'carp.'
 
I have a few bushcraft knives made with 440C. Ray Ennis of Entrek knives does an excellent job with 440C. I have several older Bokers in 440C which work for me. I probably have a few from other makers that I not recollecting.
 
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BladeScout said:
Some 440 types are just fine in my book - especially if heat treated by Paul Bos.*
Other types of modern steel may hold an edge longer along with other advantages but many turn up their noses at 440, forgetting that it worked for generations hunting, building shelters, making food. This in the hands of people who didnt realize, that their steel was 'carp.'
Click to expand...

*or Paul Farner.
 
440C is a time tested steel that works very well, that's why it's been around for decades, especially in hunting knives, where blood can wreak havoc on steel.

There are only 2 caveats.....one that you want stainless steel over carbon steel, which there are many reasons why that may be, and two that the heat treat is good.....but that applies to every steel. Heat treatment matters more than steel, it's just not as glamorous.....you don't see folks bragging about heat treatment.

I view 440C the same way I view 1095....it works, it is proven, has been around for decades, and you can trust it because it's been a workhorse steel forever. It's not a Ferrari steel, it's a pickup truck steel.
 
A knife is just a sharp-edged piece of material, usually metal, with a handle. Everything else...heat treat, rockwell, steel type, grind, size, shape, point, thickness, etc. are just details that people use to either praise or disparage a particular knife for any given specified use. :18:

It's a knife. It cuts things. Don't get caught up in details. Use and enjoy. :)
 
I've come full circle in regards to stainless steel as I've gotten older. Simple carbon steel super easy to sharpen to a very keen edge and looks cool with a natural patina.

All that said I end up in the rain, I sweat, I cross streams and rivers, I fish, and sometimes I just want to be able to use my knife and wash it and it's sheath out later. That said stainless steel and plastic sheaths have become more attractive for their extremely low maintenance. 440C seems like a good choice, but I can't say I've ever owned a knife in that steel. I see no reason why it wouldn't work well.
 
This is a little custom in 440c I bought about 9 years ago with the express purpose of using it as a canoeing companion. It is either riding in my Mohawk or my Subaru. It has proven to be very reliable with about zero care. I enjoy not worrying about it but knowing it is always ready for use.

IMG_6834.jpg
 
Wow! Thanks for all the feedback already. I wasn't really expecting too much praise for this steel, as the non stainless types seem to be the standard for bushcrafters. I assume the reason is mostly due to the great sparking factor when dealing with ferro rods? Or superior edge retention? Or is there other factors I am not aware of?

I own a single knife in 440c and have used with great results for years now, but have "only" used it for a hunting blade. I use an AA Forge Kephart in 01 steel for my main utility blade. Recently, I have decided to carry two fixed blades on my tool belt. The Classic hunting blade in a dangler sheath with no ferro rod on my left side, and the Kephart in a dangler sheath with a ferro rod, on my right. Two knives seems like overkill, but it has been great for me so far since I have experimented it. The Classic Hunter in 440c is never used for wood and only used on game processing and the like. The Kephart is my do all, use all, knife with no reasonable limits to it's use.

Since I will continue to carry both knives at the same time, and my Kephart is limited due to it's design (not very pointy), it made me wonder if my Hunter blade in 440c would need to be touched up too darn much when used for finer carving and reaming wood etc.? If the 440c would hold up fine for a little wood work, I wouldn't baby the thing so much!

You all know what a Kephart design looks like and it's lack of a well defined point, here is a picture of my other knife in question below. It is a Bob Lay "Classic Hunter" 440c and I think it was hardened to 57 if I remember correctly. Who tempered his knife steels I have no idea, but would think it would be well done and consistent due to his reputation as a knife maker over the decades. Old pic of knife, but still looks as good as that now.

1585950360850.png

Notice how it comes to a point unlike a Kephart for possible carving duties and such. Can I turn this 440c into a carver of sorts, or will I just be frustrated for this usage and just have to carry a specialized knife for finer carving? Thanks for any info about this and please keep adding your thoughts of 440c in general.

PS, I did test this Classic Hunter on a ferro rod and it did create a very usable shower of sparks. I will not ever use this knife for that purpose again, except for emergencies, but It was nice to know it would work should I need too...
 
I can dig some 440C. Like others have said, as long as it has a good heat treat, but that goes for about any knife steel. I have a couple knives in 440C and one in 440A, they all cut and hold an edge well.
 
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MTplainsman said:
I assume the reason is mostly due to the great sparking factor when dealing with ferro rods?
Click to expand...

This is a myth. Stainless steel doesn't work well attempting to get a spark by striking the spine of the knife with a piece of flint or similar. Anything with an edge will strike a ferro rod just fine, try it broken glass for example.
 
440c steel was the go-to steel for many custom and manufactured knives for a long time. Prior to 440c there was the ever popular "Surgical Stainless Steel".

After the 440c era came the next big thing, custom small-batch tool steels which custom knife makers experimented with and are still using with great effect.

Steve
 
The woodsmanship "bushcraft" is in the hands that that wield the tool, not in the tool. I have spent a good part of my life working on the water"salt water" the sheath knifes I have carried on my hip every day were stainless, high carbon steel is great but would need too much up keep for my environment.
 
I've had unsatisfying experiences with every 440C knife I've ever owned from old Buck 110s and 112s to a Browning folder to several others. The samples I've had were next to impossible to sharpen with a really thin edge that was stable to enough to use. I know it's a heat treatment issue, but 440A and AUS8 are so trivially easy to get a very thin, very sharp edge that experimenting with more 440C was not worth the trouble. They dull more quickly, but if won't get as sharp as I want it initially, what's the point? If I'm going to lay down premium bucks for premium quality knife made by someone who can heat treat 440C properly, I'd much rather have a more modern option that excels 440C performance.
 
I posted this one in cast 440C & Sneezewood over on Fixed Blade Friday yesterday:) Use it a lot. It goes against the philosophy of the material, but I put a convex on it. It is a wonder.

Serrata.jpg


Here's another one that periodically gets used a ton. Bought it in 2006 after seeing one on a camp/walk trip in Netherlands. Again, a convex edge really seems to suit the 440C. Dead easy to maintain by stropping on denim after that, and lasts a good while. The brass makes it weigh something like half a pound, which is a lot for a folder, big as it is

Boker.jpg
 
fx77 said:
Have several 440C steel knives
Here is a source for u to read and from which U will learn more than you ever dreamed of 440C

440C- A Love Hate Affair by Jay Fisher

440C knife blade steel pros, cons, comparisons, advantages, myths, truth
www.jayfisher.com
Click to expand...
Tons of info at that link. More than one can digest in one sitting. After reading, I can see why many makers don't use 440C; it's not simple without the experience, knowledge, and right equipment to treat it properly. Though, when done right, it makes an amazing knife.

I have a custom knife made of 440C, and that thing is amazing. It gets scary sharp, holds its edge quite well, and it's not a pain to sharpen. If I could magically transform all of my knives to the same quality 440C, I wouldn't hesitate.
 
Older Bucks were 440c, like my 70's era Buck 110 and 119. They still serve me well. Hold a good edge and sharpen easily. Buck's later production changed at some point, seems 420j is the main choice. My newer Bucks are not any better in use, may be a bit harder to sharpen.
Would rather have the 440c personally.
 
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