Concerned about BRKT...


mneedham

mneedham

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Bushclass I
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Mar 13, 2010
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I've always liked Bark River blades. I think that they have some great designs, I like A2, and they have some fine fit and finish, but I'm increasingly concerned about their QC and customer service. I've never been impressed with their factory sheaths or the Sharpshooter stuff, but I can get past that if their blades are good. I can even understand when a couple of heat treats go bad... But I bartered with a member a while back and sent him, a basically unused golok. The member is a very experienced woodsman and sent these pics back after a first chopping session:

2011mwsb057.jpg


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These pics were sent to me in June 2011 and BRKT has been slow on communicating (from my perspective as a proud business owner...), although they are apparently trying to make it right and will be sending out one of their goloks from this run. BRKT is a company that I have historically respected, but I'm concerned. I expect a lot from good companies, I want to see a little more here...
 
Hopefully it gets sorted out, not the first time unfortunately. A few of us were shocked when we saw it happen in person.
 
dear lord! And that's pine?! Send that sucker back with these pictures in an email!
I could see if knots did this but it looks like he cut straight through those branches.
 
I'm sure they'll make it right. I'll bet part of the problem is that they don't stock old knives, so have to wait until the next run of Goloks to replace this one. I know they have one coming up according to their posted production schedule.
 
My golok did the same thing chopping branches from a fallen pine. I was less than happy. Might have been the same batch...
 
I am familar with said golok. Hope they come thru, and make good on the screw up. As it could get real ugly quickly if they don't.
 
I have come across many reviews where chipping was a common problem for their steel.

It happens sure. So lets see how they respond for you.
 
Here's mine:


photo.jpg


Edit: I just PM'ed Mike Stewart on another forum with the picture. This thread inspired me to do so. Thank you!
 
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Some pretty big cha-dings there fellas, ouch...Hope all turns out OK
Take care
M/BK
 
I've had similar issues with brkt--mainly grind issues (uneven plunge line etc.)--& 1 heat treat related chip while cutting wood. To be fair--the ones w/out issue are very good. It shouldn't be a crapshoot however
 
akabu said:
Contact them
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Akabu - The member has contacted them, that is kind of the point of the thread. I felt badly that I had sent a member a defective piece of gear, but I felt certain that BRKT would aggressively correct it, and I'm not feeling that. It sounds as though BRKT is going to make it right, but there has been some prompting. I speak only for myself, but I'd like to see these types of situations addressed with a lot more concern, I take my steel seriously.
 
My own experience with BRKT has always been good, not great. They took care of the problem, but implied that it was abuse. Sharpshooter doesn't get a lot of love lately, Reid made a custom sheath for a Marbles Ideal for me a few years ago. It was perfect well made and still being used by the person who bought it off me.I hope they fix there QC and get back to making the high end products they are known for
 
Petrifiedwood, I didn't know that about the sheaths, I had mine made several years ago so I guess things have changed.
 
petrifiedwood said:
Basically I was given a heck of a bad time by Stewart, et al over on their knife forum for daring to bring up the issue in public instead of calling them on the phone first so they could keep it quiet.
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I think that is putting a pretty unnecessary negative spin on things. I think any business or manufacturer should be given the opportunity to make things right, if a customer encounters a problem with their product. It is when a company doesn't stand behind their product and make things right that there is legitimate grounds to run them down. Its pretty sound human dynamics (and biblical too, if that matters to you) to address the person responsible for the problem before triangulating and bringing in third parties.

All I'm trying to say is that even the best of companies have occasional lemons and they should be given the chance to fix or replace the item. If they do that then I respect them for standing behind their work.
 
Wow. Those are some pretty major failures. My survey crew has been using the same Chinese made machetes for about 3 years with zero problems that I know of. I bet BR will make it right.
 
OK, I'm not condoning any rudeness on their part. But, I'm just skeptical that you wouldn't prefer to be approached directly about a problem with something you made and had a chance to address the problem before your customer went public with it. I think any business would prefer that.
 
petrifiedwood said:
There was a problem with the knife. At the time I discovered the problem, I had paid for the knife, and it was my property. I don't see an issue with asking them in their own forum about a resolution for the problem, or posting pictures of my own property. They offered me a refund, and I accepted it. They had a chance to make it right, and they did as far as the refund is concerned. But how I was treated as a customer was uncalled for.

They were unnecessarily rude to me, and I will not soon forget it.

For that matter there are a lot of other companies making comparable knives without the bad attitude. I guess I should thank them because I took the money they refunded and bought my first ESEE.
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I have never dealt with Mike Stewart directly. The person I dealt with on the phone was impolite to the point of being rude. When I said good service I meant they repaired the knife BRKT did nothing to keep me as a customer, but they did honour there warranty
 
I had similar edge problems with a Bark River Aurora I bought a while back, AND subsequently received similar questionable CS after I contacted them. Hope it turns out better for you guys than it did for me.
 
I am not a BRKT customer and honestly when I get around to spending that kind of coin on a product I will make sure to check reputation first. They will not be on that list. This and threads like this make me happy to know that people stand up to companies. Perhaps the initial contact should be made in private. However, attitude and timeliness of addressing the issue are of an actual concern. Seems like this is not an isolated incident. If it costs them customers for a public complaint so be it. They do not seem to be a company that cares about interpersonal communication. The last two companies I have had issue with I have emailed and received kind responses and prompt solutions. Granted one of them was Gerber and a chinese product. But they were nice. The other was Asolo boot company.
Thanks very much for posting this thread.
 
itsbaker said:
They do not seem to be a company that cares about interpersonal communication. The last two companies I have had issue with I have emailed and received kind responses and prompt solutions. Granted one of them was Gerber and a Chinese product. But they were nice. The other was Asolo boot company.
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Any company should be meticulous when it comes to the interpersonal communication part of their business. The follow through sometimes can be dodgy as anyone whose dealt with local internet, phone or cable providers could attest too; at lest where |I live.
Crap I am polite when talking to strangers for the first time. If they were my customers I would at least be smart enough to put on an act. If they can't do that themselves, hire a professional polite people savy girl or guy to do it for them.

This thread reminds me of the saying, "Gossip travels half way around the world before the truth has finished putting on its shoes."

Why would any company risk being the subject of negative press?
 
Of course companies want you to keep quiet (forever) about poor product. My friends and fellow outdoorsmen get my allegiance over any company anytime---and I have no desire to short change them from information that may help them decide on how and where to spend their hard earned money. After all--my money was good---& I expect the product to be the same.

In the same breath--it's only fair that I am just as quick to provide info about companies that make their wrongs right without dragging their heels (Osprey-Mystery Ranch-Busse----and believe it or not.. Patagonia)
 
You know, in all the years I've posted on knife-related forums, I don't think I've ever called out a maker or manufacturer publically. Generally, I think that a customer and seller should work to resolve their differences, but where there are more global problems, we should talk about them. We spend a lot time on BCUSA reporting how great a knife or a maker is, if there is a perceived shortcoming, we should feel comfortable talking about that in a gracious way too.

This thread is not about the golok in the pictures, I'm questioning BRKT's quality control and follow-up. The refrain "contact them and work it out" doesn't help. I have no duty to contact BRKT, I've been a customer for a long time, and as of late I've heard things that make me concerned. BRKT should reach out to me and the folks that posted in this thread that had less than stellar experiences. A lot people here work hard for their $, count on their steel and from my perspective, have the right to hear concerns. I trust the opinions of the folks on BCUSA as much as I trust anybodys, and I count on the idea that we'll all speak the truth, good, bad or ugly to keep each other informed.
 
Last night I PM'ed Mike Stewart with a picture and explanation of what happened to my golok. Within an hour he and I had traded messages a few times, and he told me to send it in. If they decide it can be repaired, I'll get it back in under two weeks. If it needs replacing, the next run isn't for six weeks. I asked him how much money to send for the return shipping, and he told me, "No money needed, I'll cover it."

He said the edge was ground too thin for the intended use. I agree with that.
 
mneedham said:
Akabu - The member has contacted them, that is kind of the point of the thread. I felt badly that I had sent a member a defective piece of gear, but I felt certain that BRKT would aggressively correct it, and I'm not feeling that. It sounds as though BRKT is going to make it right, but there has been some prompting. I speak only for myself, but I'd like to see these types of situations addressed with a lot more concern, I take my steel seriously.
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One, mneedham, I think you are being a bit hard on yourself, almost like you are taking in the guilt for the product that you traded in good condition. Everyone knows you are truly stand up individual when it comes to trades and such.

On the topic, it is kind of interesting to me to ponder. BRK&T were always quite notably different from the other knife producers in that they made such aggressive grinds and this works great for the small knives that form the majority of their line. I sort of wonder about the bigger knives though and whether they try too ambitiously to produce a small knife grind on a big chopper.

One of the reasons why machetes are so effective at taking abuse is because they are left soft. This means that they don't really retain their edges long, but they almost never chip (they roll). Rolls are easy to work out with a file and there is just an expectation that you sharpen your machete often and that you don't really need as fine tuned an edge on one anyway. Now, I know folks like Pict deferentially grind and sharpen different parts of the blade based on how it is used. My point though is that the heat treat of a machete isn't going to be like a knife and it will never hold an edge like a knife that has a high rockwell.

Now there is a big market for big "Chopper" knives which I've had a couple of. Most of the ones I've had or used (e.g. Bussekin's) come with thicker edges and less aggressive grinds. They are hardened to a greater extent than a machete but the thickness of the spine (and less aggressive edge angle) contributes to their robustness during hard chores. At the same time, this contributes to a compromise in fine cutting chores. I know people like the mantra 'a big knife can do small knife chores and not the other way around'...But this really never jives with my experience. Big knives just sort of suck at small knife chores. You can get them done, but not well and not comfortably. That's okay in a survival scenario, but most times I like to smooth it.

I guess my point is, maybe BRK&T got it wrong with an approach of trying to build a big knife like they would a little knife. There are also different ways to build an effective big knife, the machete and big choppers are different approaches to the same result. Each way produces compromises. I guess I'll end my post saying there still is no one tool to rule them all. :D
 
+1 :)

kgd said:
One, mneedham, I think you are being a bit hard on yourself, almost like you are taking in the guilt for the product that you traded in good condition. Everyone knows you are truly stand up individual when it comes to trades and such.
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Well said kgd! and a big +1
 
I've seen too many threads on other forums about inconsistencies from BRKT -- inconsistent heat treat, grinds, & customer service -- all of that combined has ensured that I do not and will not own one of their knives, unless it was a gift. (not likely, but it would be rude to refuse a gift due to my personal prejudices)
I know several few people who have been extremely happy with their purchases, and have read even more posts from happy owners, but there are IMHO too many questionable threads & CS horror stories for me to be very tempted to send $$ their way when there are several other companies who "get it" -- BHK, ESEE, KaBar, Kershaw, Spyderco, Buck, etc.... and a lot of custom makers who will do whatever is needed to make things right for the customer -- IF there is ever a problem.
 
upthecreek said:
Well said kgd! and a big +1
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Kind words from a couple of men that I have a lot respect for, thanks! I think anytime that you give/sell/barter an item to another person, you fundamentally want them to be happy with the item and value it. When that doesn't happen, it's hard to feel good about the situation, regardless of fault.

"Enter no transaction that does not benefit everyone it affects"

I've said my peace with regard to BRKT and it sounds like a few others share my concern. If BRKT is kind of company that I think they are, Mike and his staff will sit up, take notice, and make positive change where it is necessary.

Mike
 
Mike your a good dude. Dont beat yourself up about it. Its not a fluke with those Goloks. Ive seen a few now that chipped and broke when people who actually use their tools take them out and use them. BRKT has went downhill, and wont be seeing a penny of my money again, nor will I reccomend them to anyone. I wont even get started on my opinion of sharpshooter and his products.

Sorry it went down like that for that guy. I know it will be handled, but it will more then likely be replaced with a Golok that will perform in the same manner. A fix for the problem would be a complete redesign. However, that wont happen as long as the majority of BRKT fanboys will still be in line to buy one and stick it in the drawer and not use it. A products flaws such as HT can only be discovered through use and it seems to me, that nothing good has came from users on this model of blade.
 
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