Environmental impact? Nah, Im just camping.


saxon

saxon

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I hear a lot of people talk about how people using the outdoors has a negative impact. I guess people that litter or dump chemicals are a problem. But people just using the woods and waters responsibly aren't hurting a thing. People aren't intruders, we are as natural as the next creature. Just a lot smarter and better off. At least I think we are. Maybe that's why we over think everything and create issues to worry about.
Things like cutting shelter material, campfires, pooping in the woods and not putting it in a plastic bag to carry out, (who the heck came up with that?) hurt nothing. The woods clean themselves up in very little time. (Once again Im not talking about litter, that never goes away)

Heres an example.
I know a place where there are three camp grounds. One was closed four years ago simply because there aren't enough campers to need three campgrounds.
I was recently in that closed campground. I was hunting. Its full of game. You can bet I pass through often.
That campground was open over thirty years. Thousands of campfires. Many many thousands of campers stayed there. The pit toilet buildings are still there. The booth where you drive in is still there. The roads are still there but already have grass an small trees are breaking through. You can still make out where most of the sites were. But you wont find them all.
The boat launch is washed away. If you didn't know where to look you wouldn't find it.
There was a group camp area. Many many big campfires. Hundreds and hundreds of scouts cut truck loads of kindling over the years.
Today you and I could walk through that spot and if I didn't tell you you wouldn't know. The rocked fire ring is there but its all over grown.
All those people didn't hurt a thing. Its a spooky quiet place now. But none the worse for the years of use and all the great times people had there.
Environmental impact? No man, I belong here to.
 
Agreed, 100%.

It's one thing to practice LNT as a means to prevent people who come by directly after you from knowing you were there.

It's quite another to assume that the world will not heal itself from the wounds we create. The only thing I can think of that would ruin it, would be certain types of nuclear waste. And even that, in time, dissipates. Very slowly, but it does go away.

Even if we annihilate everyone on earth in a titanic nuclear holocaust, 10000 years from now the waters will run clean and the trees begin to grow again.

To believe that we as humans can change the world forever is a little overproud, I think. To believe that and then legislate what others do (especially on their private property) is ignorant.
PMZ
 
cool.....Take some pics next time your out that way. Id love to see em. Sounds like a neat place.
 
I worked for the Forest Service in SE Alaska in the mid 70s. We did a study call "stand density" where we went an marked out 4- one acre plots then thinned the trees at different spacing, years later some one would go back to see how the trees grew...You see that during the war whole islands were stripped clear of all the trees. The spruce was used to build bombers the hemlock cut to rail road like ties and used as roads. Some said that nothing would ever grow again...well we found 20,000 trees per acre in spots! Yes I counted them that was my job.
Point is the trees cones shattered showing seed that regrew replacing the trees that were cut down. So much for impact.
When dredging for gold The dredge re-filled the hole. We took out heavy things like: lead shot , iron nails, mercury, garnets (gems)and gold. Taking the lead shot so birds don't eat it . Mercury because old miners were dumb.
And left "soft" gravel for fish to "nest" in and lay their eggs. So much for impact.
I wasn't always a beekeeper...
 
saxon said:
Environmental impact? No man, I belong here to.
Click to expand...

I agree with you completely, to a degree. In a humid environment like we have here in PA, what you say makes total sense. However, to my recollection, most of the Leave No Trace ethos started back in the mid-80s and was big in the western states in high use areas in arid and alpine ecosystems. Due to the lack of water and frigid temperatures in these areas, regrowth may take decades if not centuries depending on the region. When you take an area like the Pacific Crest Trail or some other high use trail through these alpine communities, with very nutrient poor, olligotrophic lakes and poor soils, the need for LNT begins to become more apparent. Everyone doing their own thing only leads to a "Tragedy of the Commons" in which those who wish to enjoy the outdoors end up being the ones who damage it the greatest.

LNT still makes sense back east here in areas like the AT. However, for most lower use, local areas, a little bit of disturbance is actually a good thing. Disturbance offsets dominance in undesirable plant species. It increases biodiversity by allowing less common plants to compete to colonize the disturbance. Disturbance increase the amount of "edge effect" for ecotone species like White tailed deer. That's why I generally don't have too much gas when the PA Game commission does a select cut on game lands. The end result is ultimately better for most involved.

However, since most folks are not aware of this, they typically only parrot the "mantra of the day" without actually stopping to think for a moment about why they hold the opinion that they do and why they feel the need to be so vocal about it while telling us how bad we are for chopping a log or burning a camp fire.
 
If you ever watch a show on the History channel called "Life after people", it becomes pretty clear that the earth is going to shake us off like a bad cold. Its going to be just fine.
 
I have met many people who are angered that I go out and have campfires in the forest for warmth, cooking, and brewing purposes. They tell me that I should do those things inside at home and not take from nature.

These people are often opposed to fishing and hunting as well....and some of them even despise pet-ownership.

It is truly amazing how ignorant some people can be.
 
Interesting read from the creator of the Purcell Trench. Worth a look.

http://www.purcelltrench.com/leaveatrace.htm

Obviously there are places that are so highly used that the admonishment to LNT 100% is necessary, even critical...but there are many many places in the wilderness where simply taking "some" appropriate steps to minimize your impact are enough. Being mindful. Knowing the difference is enough for me.
 
I remember back in '95....I was about to defend my MSc thesis and my supervisor gave me the sage advice after I handed in my thesis for committee review to go out and take a vacation, relax and prepare for your defense. I was in Winnipeg at the time and made the Pilgrimage to Yellowstone Park. It was a long drive. I had my VW rabbit diesel (which could barely make the slopes on the Beartooth pass) to finally get there. At that point, I learned that the waitlist for campsites in yellowstone was about 15 mo.

I went into stealth mode. Ditching my vehicle in the local town, I managed a ride into the park with Alice pack sporting my gear. I saw the sites and camped in stealth. While visiting Old Faithful, I met this junior park ranger, a young girl interested in demonstrating her knowledge of the park and its dark secrets. I have to admit.....I might have left a few footprints during that trip....just a trampled flower or so :D :D :D Mind you, I came back to my MSc defense, well rested and in good spirits! Yellowstone Park and Geysers are still synonyms in my books.
 
Chamonix said:
Interesting read from the creator of the Purcell Trench. Worth a look.

http://www.purcelltrench.com/leaveatrace.htm
Click to expand...

Good article


Obviously there are places that are so highly used that the admonishment to LNT 100% is necessary, even critical...but there are many many places in the wilderness where simply taking "some" appropriate steps to minimize your impact are enough. Being mindful. Knowing the difference is enough for me.
Click to expand...

Good outlook on life.
 
I don't think the issue is "can the land recover once people stop using it?" it's more about places that see high volume of people continuously.
 
Only things I really feel the need to do and try to make others with me do are bathroom sanitation ( I have some good first hand stories about amoebic dysentery) and fire ethics (I think it's terribly wasteful when someone makes a fire then uses their jetboil to fix their mountainhouse). That and i try to leave the campsite cleaner than i found it (foil does not and will not burn, pack it out!)
 
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saxon said:
I hear a lot of people talk about how people using the outdoors has a negative impact. I guess people that litter or dump chemicals are a problem. But people just using the woods and waters responsibly aren't hurting a thing. People aren't intruders, we are as natural as the next creature. Just a lot smarter and better off. At least I think we are. Maybe that's why we over think everything and create issues to worry about.
Things like cutting shelter material, campfires, pooping in the woods and not putting it in a plastic bag to carry out, (who the heck came up with that?) hurt nothing. The woods clean themselves up in very little time. (Once again Im not talking about litter, that never goes away)

Heres an example.
I know a place where there are three camp grounds. One was closed four years ago simply because there aren't enough campers to need three campgrounds.
I was recently in that closed campground. I was hunting. Its full of game. You can bet I pass through often.
That campground was open over thirty years. Thousands of campfires. Many many thousands of campers stayed there. The pit toilet buildings are still there. The booth where you drive in is still there. The roads are still there but already have grass an small trees are breaking through. You can still make out where most of the sites were. But you wont find them all.
The boat launch is washed away. If you didn't know where to look you wouldn't find it.
There was a group camp area. Many many big campfires. Hundreds and hundreds of scouts cut truck loads of kindling over the years.
Today you and I could walk through that spot and if I didn't tell you you wouldn't know. The rocked fire ring is there but its all over grown.
All those people didn't hurt a thing. Its a spooky quiet place now. But none the worse for the years of use and all the great times people had there.
Environmental impact? No man, I belong here to.
Click to expand...

Well said, brother!
 
Gulo gulo said:
Only things I really feel the need to do and try to make others with me do are bathroom sanitation ( I have some good first hand stories about amoebic dysentery) and fire ethics (I think it's terribly wasteful when someone makes a fire then uses their jetboil to fix their mountainhouse). That and i try to leave the campsite cleaner than i found it (foil does not and will not burn, pack it out!)
Click to expand...

I gotta agree with ya on the Jetboil next to the campfire mentality(and I own a Jetboil), but if I'm using a fire I cook with the fire, I might fire a stove in the morning to make coffee if I didn't leave water on overnite. And anymore it's a spirit stove.

I wish I had an unused state park close by.
 
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