Let the experiment resume


plumberoy

plumberoy

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Let the experiment resume>>> update groups fired

4-5 years ago I set out to reload some slugs and set myself up a poor mans 20 bore rifle. I started with a stock H&R tracker II rifled 20 ga . I purchased some 500 grain hard cast slugs from dixie slugs/ James Gates who is a wealth of knowledge on shotguns and slug reloadings. My first rounds of trials where pruducing 2 1/2- 3 1/2 group at 50 yards @ 1200 fps :4: Then my job went away :mad: so the project got put on the back burner . I'm now in a good job got a good place to shoot and Dixie slugs no longer sell the slugs. so after some searching I have found a source for cast slugs and round balls . Hard cast round balls was one of my original ideas any way .. I have 100 .625 hard cast round balls in bound .... If I can get them to shoot decent this will allow 2 thing 1st thing punch big holes through most any critter in the lower 48 and 2nd afford to shoot the thing semi regularly
Will post follow ups as test progress
Roy
 
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Looking forward to this. I've got a new barrel for my 20 gauge and was thinking about round ball slugs. Post up loads and components if you would.
 
cloudraker said:
Looking forward to this. I've got a new barrel for my 20 gauge and was thinking about round ball slugs. Post up loads and components if you would.
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what I all ready know is you want the wad column made of hard filler wads
the 500 grain slug I started with was loaded
> balistic products 3" multihull primed
> bluedot powder
> gas seal
>several nitro cards
> 2 cork wads
>2 felt wads
> 1 nitro card
> slug
> roll crimp
I am going to start with a simalar load but with remington sts/gunclubs or winchester aa's the guy making them says rb's shoot just as good from 2 3/4 hulls he sells 1 oz bullet type slugs too (reloader auctions turbo 1889) do some reading in cast boolits shotgun section
A normal 20 ga slug I could dig out of the bank with a trowell 6-8" into the dirt I never did recover one of those hard cast slugs
Roy
 
I have been throwing together some 690 balls in shotcups for my shortened 19" smoothbore brush gun. Even out of a smoothbore roundballs are accurate. I dont think your project will disappoint.
 
I'll be interested to follow your work. Thanks for posting.

With respect to the roundball, round projectiles from 20 ga. (or so) barrels accounted for a lot of game "back in the day". (I'm thinking Northwest Trade Guns, etc.). And they were smoothies!

PC
 
mr_nice_guy228 said:
I have been throwing together some 690 balls in shotcups for my shortened 19" smoothbore brush gun. Even out of a smoothbore roundballs are accurate. I dont think your project will disappoint.
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What's your definition of accurate? What size groups at what range?
I'm seriously thinking of cutting down my H&R single shot to 18.25" turning it into my backpack boar gun. I think my max range in our rain forest is maybe 20 yards max. What shotcup and powder you using? You star-crimping the end? Thanks!
 
I have fire .490 round balls out in a shot cup out of an H&R 28 ga with decent results
Roy
 
Ahnkochee said:
What's your definition of accurate? What size groups at what range?
I'm seriously thinking of cutting down my H&R single shot to 18.25" turning it into my backpack boar gun. I think my max range in our rain forest is maybe 20 yards max. What shotcup and powder you using? You star-crimping the end? Thanks!
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I posted several days ago about a 20 ga. Parder single shot I picked up just before Christmas. One poster offered me good advice, which I repeat here: Before you cut your barrel down, you might want to shoot some slugs through it first. (When doing this kind of testing, I usually pick up several boxes of slugs to discover which the gun likes best.)

I've shot a couple of Parder 20 ga. singles over the years. Both had fixed, modified chokes (just like the gun I purchased). Both guns would group slugs with nearly touching holes and reasonably close to point of aim at 25 yards. These were simple guns with a front bead only. I'm hoping my latest pickup will do as well. I've never hunted hogs, but I'd think a Brenneke type 20 ga. slug would do very well...especially at the kind of ranges you've suggested.

PC
 
WARNING
First off do you own research since I have not fired any loaded ammo listed below I can't gaurantee they are safe in any gun I am working off of 25 years of reloading experiance,years of reading reloading books, talking to manufacture's tech guys, and advice from trusted experts. each round will be fired and the hull looked over with thoroughly for signs of high pressure or problems before firing the next rounds If you don't have the experience get you a lyman shot reloading book , talk to the powder manufacturers tech guys or trusted experianced reloader Before you fire any loads not published By a componnet manufacturer

My hard cast round balls arrived along with some 1/2" waxed hard cards from BPI
First off Kudo's to the seller shipped with the round balls were 2 snack size ziplock bags full of nitro cards 300-400 pieces and some good starting data
P1050190.jpg

All the stuff ready to go
P1050192.jpg
I loaded 5 rounds in once fired winchester AAs and 5 rounds in new BPI multi hulls both loads started with 24 grains of bluedot the multi hulls were loaded powder>gas seal>1 nitro card>2 1/2" waxed hard card > 1/4" felt wad > ball
P1050196.jpg

The AA's were loaded powder>gas seal> 4 nitro cards> 1/4 felt wad> ball
P1050197.jpg

the battery drill I have now isn"t as fast as the old one and I ended up firing up a cheap table top drill press to roll crimp them adjusting the wads and drill press and trying 2 drills accounts for some height difference in finished once you get settled on a load and set up the drill press you can get them uniform I am more concerned about the ball being crimped tight than height
P1050194.jpg

Behind the shells are some loaded slug with the first slug that are no longer avialable
 
Shot the first batch today. The AA loads weren't the best I was shooting 25 yards. With iron sights and like a brick ballistic of a round ball I only expect this to be a 50 yard gun
P1070199.jpg

The results from the 3" multi hull was a little better :4:
P1070198.jpg

The first round I loaded had 2 nitro cards It was marked and fired last It is the flier :4: I am going to try about a grain more powder mainly because that will be put me were in a jam I could load with a dipper out of my lee powder set

I loaded 10 more rounds and went back to the club. I forgot my camera so I have no pics but shot a 5 shot group @ 50 yards of 3 inches. I am terrible at shooting paper targets . People put clay birds on the backstop 5-6 yards behind the target stands and shoot at them . I took the last 5 rounds and and picked out pieces of broken birds all less than half a bird and with the guy beside me watching with a spotting scope hit 4 out of 5 tries and the 5th one was with in a hair I am excited about this load next week end I will chronagraph it. If it is doing over 1200 f.p.s. I am not changing a thing
Roy
 
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I fired 5 rounds over the chronagraph 1190,1190,1196,1197 and 1201 :4:

I fired 2 more with a half a grain more powder 26.5 grains of bluedot and got pressure signs . I disassembled the last 3 rounds
I an thinking that I don't have enough cushion so I changed out 1 of the hard waxed wads with 2 cork wads 1/4 " thick next time I will be able to get to the range is friday
More to come
Roy
 
plumberoy said:
I have fire .490 round balls out in a shot cup out of an H&R 28 ga with decent results
Roy
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That's nothing to sneeze at, Depending on your choke, you should be able to shoot between .52 to .577 round ball or minis from the same gun.
 
jburdine1956 said:
That's nothing to sneeze at, Depending on your choke, you should be able to shoot between .52 to .577 round ball or minis from the same gun.
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That load was developed for defending my beagles from coyotes. I rabbit hunt over dogs and there have been reports of yotes attacking beagles (5 years ago a world champian field trial dog was hurt bad by yotes) My loads do 1050 f.p.s. and group minute of coyote at 50 yards . It is loaded in a wad with filler wads and bluedot
Roy
 
That's the kind of accuracy I get with factory loads out of my 2 3/4 20 gauge. Nice shooting. Always pays to reload.

The fields where I hunt pheasant and train my brittanies have coyote's - I keep buckshot on me for the same reason. No solid shot allowed, otherwise it'd be slugs too.
 
cloudraker said:
That's the kind of accuracy I get with factory loads out of my 2 3/4 20 gauge. Nice shooting. Always pays to reload.

The fields where I hunt pheasant and train my brittanies have coyote's - I keep buckshot on me for the same reason. No solid shot allowed, otherwise it'd be slugs too.
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we are allowed to carry slugs but you would never know these are slugs I star crimp them just a black sharpie mark on the hull :54:
 
I've seen several tutorials on wax and cut shell's and I am curious what the advantage is of this over the others? I have no experience with any of these "specialty" loads and I admit I an not much of a shotgun guy in general. I think they are great ideas and if nothing else saves a lot of money over store bought slugs not to mention the handiness of being able to load something yourself. But what made you go this rout instead of one of the other ways to make a "slug"?
 
cut shells will run you pressure theough the roof , don't do it. the only 20 ga slugs available are foster slugs and sabot laods. fosters are hollow cup made of soft lead most are undersized made for smoothbores they kill thin skinned game decent but will flatten out on hard bone fail . sabot bush a 62 cal down to a 45 pistol bullet and push them at there limit and @ close range can blow up at close range . Bushing a 62 down to 45 doesn't appeal to me. the load I am loading will break bones and penatrate through and through At the price of cheap slugs
 
plumberoy said:
cut shells will run you pressure theough the roof , don't do it. the only 20 ga slugs available are foster slugs and sabot laods. fosters are hollow cup made of soft lead most are undersized made for smoothbores they kill thin skinned game decent but will flatten out on hard bone fail . sabot bush a 62 cal down to a 45 pistol bullet and push them at there limit and @ close range can blow up at close range . Bushing a 62 down to 45 doesn't appeal to me. the load I am loading will break bones and penatrate through and through At the price of cheap slugs
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the only slugs any one I know uses are foster types, and I have never seen or even heard of them doing anything on contact with bone but punching right through... I have seen 20Ga slugs go through both shoulder blades of a whitetail at 45-50 yards, no problem... yes they expand a bit, but they hardly "flatten out" or fail...
 
leaf and lightning said:
the only slugs any one I know uses are foster types, and I have never seen or even heard of them doing anything on contact with bone but punching right through... I have seen 20Ga slugs go through both shoulder blades of a whitetail at 45-50 yards, no problem... yes they expand a bit, but they hardly "flatten out" or fail...
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The guys I hunted with in florida had a foster slug recovered from a 300# hog against the shoulder blade that was flat healed up and not showing any infection . the hog showed no signs of distress . I have been right there when a sobot round when a pistol bullet in a muzzle loader witch isn't much different than most shotgun sobot blew up (shot was less than 25 yards ) it dropped the deer but he got up I handed my friend my gun to finish the deer the sabot load made a large shollow horrific wound. neather type fails often , but the do fail.
I use foster slugs they kill deer like lighting strike, but places in ohio now have hogs and sooner or later they will be state wide sabot's usually fail at close range do to over driving a bullet (it is rare for them to fail too) and frankly why buy a 62 cal and then bush it down to 45.Then it is just in my blood to do thing different :4:
Roy
 
After some research I found the multi hulls bought in the time period I bought the one had a problem with ruptured primers. Winchester primers plus another half grain of powder showed no problems . I shot them at 100 yards today . This is getting to my limit with iron sights I got a 4 1/2 inch group with 3 shots in a 2 1/2 inch group about 3 inches low
Roy
 
I chronigraphed the latest rendition of this load today.
same as 3" load listed earlier except 27 grains of bluedot for charge they average 1260.5 fps
 
Seems like alot of work to make a "thumper", handloading, lack of slugs, risking overpressure, cutting down the shotgun etc. Why not an off the shelf H&R 45/70? Shotgun only state? Somethingdifferentness or is there something else I'm missing?
 
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nemoaz said:
Seems like alot of work to make a "thumper", handloading, lack of slugs, risking overpressure, cutting down the shotgun etc. Why not an off the shelf H&R 45/70? Shotgun only state? Somethingdifferentness or is there something else I'm missing?
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Somethingdifferentness has some to due with it, shotgun only state too. the gun is a factory unmodified gun. not satafied with factory loads as far as over pressure , I have reloaded for over 25 years and consulted with a manufacturer of this type of slugs James Gates of Dixie slugs plus turbo1889 here on the forums is a wealth of knowledge (he makes the round balls)I read all his post on slug reloading and a couple of pm's . Empty hulls fly out of the gun
 
I have had realy good luck with Lymn #2654112 12ga 525gr slugs I mould from wheelweights, with 50/50 sodder added to allow proper hardening. The are droped into warm (70f -80f) water just out of the mould to harden the exterior a bit. They are used in rifled barrels and will shoot 2.5" groups at 100yds, from a lead slead. The become unstable and will keyhole around 40-60 yards in a non-rifled barrel. I use Green Dot and Winchester AA 1oz white wads. Winchester AA hulls with a roll crimp.
 
whiteoak said:
I have had realy good luck with Lymn #2654112 12ga 525gr slugs I mould from wheelweights, with 50/50 sodder added to allow proper hardening. The are droped into warm (70f -80f) water just out of the mould to harden the exterior a bit. They are used in rifled barrels and will shoot 2.5" groups at 100yds, from a lead slead. The become unstable and will keyhole around 40-60 yards in a non-rifled barrel. I use Green Dot and Winchester AA 1oz white wads. Winchester AA hulls with a roll crimp.
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I considered those in 20 ga. but, I have heard the 20 gauge version doesn't do as well as the twelve gauge I my have to try some if I run across a 12 barrel Gardeners cashe sell them ( to try before I buy a mold) I bet these round ball loads would do 2 1/2" with a scoped gun or some one with better eyes
 
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