Lever gun sites?

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sasquatch

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Im looking at selling off two of my rifles and getting a lever gun instead. Right now its between a thuddy thuddy or a 38-55. Both will be reloaded for, but does anyone have any tips for choosing? Ill be going for mostly new england deer, possibly black bear and moose. It seems like for deer the 30-30 is a better choice, but seems marginal on moose and black bear (but you can always shoot em twice lol).

Thanks for the advice all!
 
Price and availability of ammo 30 wcf (30-30). Romance factor, the 38-55 has it.

Let me throw another option in the ring for you, as if the choice is not difficult enough already. Consider a Marlin 336 in a .35 Remington, The .35 is a heck of a cartridge for close quarters deer, moose, and bear. Very high on the cool factor as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.35_Remington
 
Awasos said:
Price and availability of ammo 30 wcf (30-30). Romance factor, the 38-55 has it.

Let me throw another option in the ring for you, as if the choice is not difficult enough already. Consider a Marlin 336 in a .35 Remington, The .35 is a heck of a cartridge for close quarters deer, moose, and bear. Very high on the cool factor as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.35_Remington
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If I go 35 rem I may as well go 38-55. The 35 rem is hard to find (read impossible) in CT, so its reload only, and th 38-55 is cooler and similarly priced in that case. :32: The 30-30 seems like a more practical cartridge on the whole though. Ill probably just go with whichever falls in my lap first to be honest. Plus I dont know what brass I can form 35 rem out of as it is a smaller head size then 30-06 and I imagine 38-55 will be easier to load boolits in.
 
Check out the ballistics trajectory data, and consider ranges you are likely to shoot at.
 
.30-30 will do what you ask as long as you're willing to do your part in getting close enough and shooting where it counts. .35 Remington is a great cartridge as well, and you could do worse than a Marlin in that.

.38-55 is probably something you'll want to reload for. Bullet selection will be more limited, but if you cast your own there are some great molds out there for it.
 
sasquatch said:
If I go 35 rem I may as well go 38-55. The 35 rem is hard to find (read impossible) in CT, so its reload only, and th 38-55 is cooler and similarly priced in that case. :32: The 30-30 seems like a more practical cartridge on the whole though.
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Personally, I would not consider the. 38-55 for anything but targets, plinking and varmints. IMO its a marginal choice for deer and totally inadequate for bear or moose.

If you want something with a bit more authority than the .30-30 there are other choices in leverguns such as the .308 ME, .338ME .444 Marlin, .45-70 Government or if you would be willing to consider an older used gun, you could pick up a Savage 99 in .300 Savage or. 308 Winchester.

Of course, except for the .45-70 and .308, you will procably face the same need to reload as you would with the .35 choice.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk
 
GreyOne said:
Check out the ballistics trajectory data, and consider ranges you are likely to shoot at.
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I have a personal 150 yard max for shooting on a 6in target from field positions under less then perfect conditions, and will drop that to 100 yards if Im under stress. My choice is more based on whats more bushcrafty now.
H_Talon said:
WOW ... three messages in 1 min :-)

Talon
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Thats what happens when you title a thread with lever guns on this site!
Mykos said:
.30-30 will do what you ask as long as you're willing to do your part in getting close enough and shooting where it counts. .35 Remington is a great cartridge as well, and you could do worse than a Marlin in that.

.38-55 is probably something you'll want to reload for. Bullet selection will be more limited, but if you cast your own there are some great molds out there for it.
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Thank you for the info. I will probably not cast, but i think I can find cast lead bullets for cheap plinking and i can probaly use those for hunting.
mdauben said:
Personally, I would not consider the. 38-55 for anything but targets, plinking and varmints. IMO its a marginal choice for deer and totally inadequate for bear or moose.

If you want something with a bit more authority than the .30-30 there are other choices in leverguns such as the .308 ME, .338ME .444 Marlin, .45-70 Government or if you would be willing to consider an older used gun, you could pick up a Savage 99 in .300 Savage or. 308 Winchester.

Of course, except for the .45-70 and .308, you will procably face the same need to reload as you would with the .35 choice.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk
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I much prefer the classic lever cartridges and the 45-70 is too much gun, the 30-30 is enough gun if I shoot a moose twice. :9:

Why would you say the 38-55 is marginal? Based on my knowledge of it it should hold up on deer sized critters at least to 100 yards.
 
As mdauben has rightly pointed out, the 38-55 is a good cowboy action shooter for plinking, targets, and the like, but on deer sized game and up, I concur with him that it’s questionable.

I will freely admit that I have never hunted moose or bear. A 30/30 on those two is questionable in my opinion, but I’m sure that it’s capable providing you only take ethical shots, you’re a good marksman, and you’ve the skill and patients to stalk in on a moose and get a good clear shot at the vitals from a distance of 40 or less yards.

The 35 Remington is slightly better than the 30/30, but brass could be an issue depending upon how much you like to shoot. The 35 Remington, if memory serves me correctly, is a unique case all to itself. It’s rim diameter is around .460, which means that 30/06 and all the calibers based off of it won’t work for making brass.

I like lever actions myself. Moreover, they’re vastly cheaper than the black gun mania that’s gripped everybody. With that said, if I were planning on hunting 600 pound black bears and moose sized game as well, I’d step it up to the .444 Marlin. Again if my memory’s correct, I think they can be formed from 30/40 brass, which isn’t very popular either…

I was always taught that the .270 was bare minimum for moose. This is a gray area though. It all boils down to the hunters skill at stalking, patients, and the ability to shoot and hit the game where it counts under less than ideal conditions.

My vote is a .444 Marlin, which wasn’t one of the options. I was taught to only take shots I’m sure of, and to make sure that they’re ethical. One shot, one kill, and make it as instant as possible. The 38-55 and 30/30 on moose stacks the cards against everything I’ve been taught. Just my thoughts…
 
I havent hunted ith the 38-55, but the people I know that have, and the reports on the leverguns site have all said the 38-55 is decidedly better than the 30-30 for hunting. If people are looking at the factory ballistics, you are seeing the black powder level loads. Nobody uses those for anything, they are plinking level laods, and those that have chronographed them say they don't even meeet specified velocity, you need to handload. You can safely get to around 1800 fps with a 250 gr bullet, some can do better, depending on the powder etc. Some factory loads used to be available from Canada that were in the 1700 fps range, all are much better than the wimpy factory loads. Lyman used to list loads in the 1800-1850 fps range in their older manuals.

Having said all that, getting a good load in a 38-55 can be challenging. The bore dimensions can be generous (from .377" to .380+", and sometimes the correct size bullet for your individual bore can't be chambered, or not without turning the case neck down a little. Some form cases from 30-30 and it alleviates that. I had a barrel made with a .375" groove diameter, so I don't have that problem, but havent finished the project yet.

If you ask the question on the leverguns forum, you will get several guys that will tell you they shoot moose and elk with 30-30's, but I think you will find they are good hunters and don't shoot very long distances. The cartridg will do the job if used carefully, but there are better cartridges. If I were going t hunt moose, I'd far prefer a 38-55 with good loads, and I'd check the bore dimensions of the gun I was going to buy, pass on the loose ones, or have a barrel made. Any 30-30 can be rebarreled in 38-55 pretty simply.


You could also look for a 356 or 375 Win in a 94 Winchester, but they go for a littel more money. The 38-55 can safely come pretty close to the actual ballistic of the 375 win tho.
 
Look up Paco Kelly's levergun website. The best...

Regards,

ezra
 
In the real world the 30-30 is a better choice simply due to ammuntion availability. Since you handload either one is adequate for deer to 150 yards, more if you can place shots accurately past that distance. Buffalo Bore loads a hot .38-55 load for modern smokeless powder lever actions that has a velocity of about 1950 fps. That should be close to .375 Big Bore ballistics. A phrase about the 38-55 in its milder black powder form I read somewhere was "It shoots ............. almost across the room."

You should also consider resale. A 30-30 is a lot easier to sell than the .38-55 since you can sell it to those who do not reload.
 
cheap'n'squeaky said:
As mdauben has rightly pointed out, the 38-55 is a good cowboy action shooter for plinking, targets, and the like, but on deer sized game and up, I concur with him that it’s questionable.

I will freely admit that I have never hunted moose or bear. A 30/30 on those two is questionable in my opinion, but I’m sure that it’s capable providing you only take ethical shots, you’re a good marksman, and you’ve the skill and patients to stalk in on a moose and get a good clear shot at the vitals from a distance of 40 or less yards.

The 35 Remington is slightly better than the 30/30, but brass could be an issue depending upon how much you like to shoot. The 35 Remington, if memory serves me correctly, is a unique case all to itself. It’s rim diameter is around .460, which means that 30/06 and all the calibers based off of it won’t work for making brass.

I like lever actions myself. Moreover, they’re vastly cheaper than the black gun mania that’s gripped everybody. With that said, if I were planning on hunting 600 pound black bears and moose sized game as well, I’d step it up to the .444 Marlin. Again if my memory’s correct, I think they can be formed from 30/40 brass, which isn’t very popular either…

I was always taught that the .270 was bare minimum for moose. This is a gray area though. It all boils down to the hunters skill at stalking, patients, and the ability to shoot and hit the game where it counts under less than ideal conditions.

My vote is a .444 Marlin, which wasn’t one of the options. I was taught to only take shots I’m sure of, and to make sure that they’re ethical. One shot, one kill, and make it as instant as possible. The 38-55 and 30/30 on moose stacks the cards against everything I’ve been taught. Just my thoughts…
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Its a bit on the small side, but actually finding moose in person, you always stumble on them inside of 60 yards. Now thats mighty close to a big thing, but an easy shot on the vitals. A big black bear where I am is maybe 350lbs and moose where Id find them are usually under 1100lbs.

Malamute said:
I havent hunted ith the 38-55, but the people I know that have, and the reports on the leverguns site have all said the 38-55 is decidedly better than the 30-30 for hunting. If people are looking at the factory ballistics, you are seeing the black powder level loads. Nobody uses those for anything, they are plinking level laods, and those that have chronographed them say they don't even meeet specified velocity, you need to handload. You can safely get to around 1800 fps with a 250 gr bullet, some can do better, depending on the powder etc. Some factory loads used to be available from Canada that were in the 1700 fps range, all are much better than the wimpy factory loads. Lyman used to list loads in the 1800-1850 fps range in their older manuals.

Having said all that, getting a good load in a 38-55 can be challenging. The bore dimensions can be generous (from .377" to .380+", and sometimes the correct size bullet for your individual bore can't be chambered, or not without turning the case neck down a little. Some form cases from 30-30 and it alleviates that. I had a barrel made with a .375" groove diameter, so I don't have that problem, but havent finished the project yet.

If you ask the question on the leverguns forum, you will get several guys that will tell you they shoot moose and elk with 30-30's, but I think you will find they are good hunters and don't shoot very long distances. The cartridg will do the job if used carefully, but there are better cartridges. If I were going t hunt moose, I'd far prefer a 38-55 with good loads, and I'd check the bore dimensions of the gun I was going to buy, pass on the loose ones, or have a barrel made. Any 30-30 can be rebarreled in 38-55 pretty simply.


You could also look for a 356 or 375 Win in a 94 Winchester, but they go for a littel more money. The 38-55 can safely come pretty close to the actual ballistic of the 375 win tho.
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Thanks for the info. Looking at that a 35-30 may be my best bet. I can find lever guns with bad barrels for very cheap around here and it shouldnt be too hard to rebarrel. I think.
wsdstan said:
In the real world the 30-30 is a better choice simply due to ammuntion availability. Since you handload either one is adequate for deer to 150 yards, more if you can place shots accurately past that distance. Buffalo Bore loads a hot .38-55 load for modern smokeless powder lever actions that has a velocity of about 1950 fps. That should be close to .375 Big Bore ballistics. A phrase about the 38-55 in its milder black powder form I read somewhere was "It shoots ............. almost across the room."

You should also consider resale. A 30-30 is a lot easier to sell than the .38-55 since you can sell it to those who do not reload.
Click to expand...

That is true, but Id like to think I will keep this gun till its time for my grandkids to have it.
 
Shot placement is the key. Either 30-30 or 38-55 will be fine for killing deer... the challenge is the hunter's skill, not the rifle or the ammo, in most cases.

One angle to consider is the Browning BLR. Its design is closer to a bolt action than a classic lever, and it utilizes a box magazine, allowing for use of modern rifle ammo. Mine is a .358, but they are also available in plenty of short, standard, and long action calibers. The action has it's critics due to it's complexity and the challenge of finding a qualified smith willing to touch it, but for a handy, light hunting rifle, it's hard to beat.

http://www.gunblast.com/Browning-BLR358.htm

If you are able to develop appropriate loads and shooting skills, a quality 1892 Winchester or 1894 Marlin is a fantastic hunting carbine for deer and larger animals, again, depending on skill and loading.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm
 
A well placed shot is what kills. 30-30 will take down a deer, and a bear, but as with bears, it takes 10 minutes to figure that they're dead.
 
brionic said:
Shot placement is the key. Either 30-30 or 38-55 will be fine for killing deer... the challenge is the hunter's skill, not the rifle or the ammo, in most cases.

One angle to consider is the Browning BLR. Its design is closer to a bolt action than a classic lever, and it utilizes a box magazine, allowing for use of modern rifle ammo. Mine is a .358, but they are also available in plenty of short, standard, and long action calibers. The action has it's critics due to it's complexity and the challenge of finding a qualified smith willing to touch it, but for a handy, light hunting rifle, it's hard to beat.

http://www.gunblast.com/Browning-BLR358.htm

If you are able to develop appropriate loads and shooting skills, a quality 1892 Winchester or 1894 Marlin is a fantastic hunting carbine for deer and larger animals, again, depending on skill and loading.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm
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Those are nice guns, but a bit rich for my blood. Im Looking at a $450 budget for a totally set up rifle. I think Id be lucky to find a BLR for $650 or $700.
Swede6.5x55 said:
A well placed shot is what kills. 30-30 will take down a deer, and a bear, but as with bears, it takes 10 minutes to figure that they're dead.
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Sounds about right. I may load up a cast bullet load and only use that. I imagine a good bullet will give me a through and through on a deer or moose.
alukban said:
Don't forget http://marlinowners.com
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thanks! Ill have to check that out.
 
I have killed a few elk with several calibers, 270, 06 and the 30-30, 170gr silvertip. It was just as dead, just as quick as the 06. Gotta hit em right with any of them.
 
Awasos said:
Price and availability of ammo 30 wcf (30-30). Romance factor, the 38-55 has it.

Let me throw another option in the ring for you, as if the choice is not difficult enough already. Consider a Marlin 336 in a .35 Remington, The .35 is a heck of a cartridge for close quarters deer, moose, and bear. Very high on the cool factor as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.35_Remington
Click to expand...

What he said! Commercial brass for the .35 Remington is still very available through many sources. Also, the .35 Remington is factory loaded to levels safe in the old Remington 141. Marlin 336 actions are capable of handling loads up to .30-30 pressures. You might want to seek out the rather extensive work of the chap who writes under the pen name ".35 Remington" (how's that for originality?) His extensive testing work on this fine cartridge is quite stunning...and his work is very careful.

I used a handloaded 220 Speer flatpoint in a stout load to take a small black bear several years ago. I've also used the great 200 gr. Remington Corelokt designed for this cartridge to take a couple whitetails. Both bullets performed very well. I was particularly impressed by the bloodtrail left by the 220 Speer.

I've never hunted moose, but I'd think a properly loaded .35 Remington would be fully moose capable at woods ranges. It's certainly been used for that purpose for many decades.

PC
 
Marlin Owners is a good forum, www.marlinowners.com/forums.
As for calibre, there's too many to pick from and too many variables to narrow it down. I'd consider ammo availability, and it's performance on the game you intend to hunt at the ranges and conditions you will be in. As for defense, nearly any centerfire rifle will be fine for defense.
 
Inside of 125yds or so, either round will do the job you want.

.30-30 is more available in factory ammo. If you lose the box of cartridges you brought, you can go to the nearest WalMart or mom & pop shop and pick up a box.

The .38-55 has a heavier bullet, with a wider diameter which is always a good thing when hunting moose.

The .30-30 has killed countless Alaskan (and Canadian) moose. And they avg much larger than the moose of New England. I used a .30-30 stoked with Federal factory 170gr Nosler Partitions for moose hunting in AK. The Natives in the villages used regular Core-Lokt or Silvertip factory loads.


When it comes down to it, it's personal choice coupled with which rifle you can find at a reasonable price.

Mario
 
mario said:
Inside of 125yds or so, either round will do the job you want.

.30-30 is more available in factory ammo. If you lose the box of cartridges you brought, you can go to the nearest WalMart or mom & pop shop and pick up a box.

The .38-55 has a heavier bullet, with a wider diameter which is always a good thing when hunting moose.

The .30-30 has killed countless Alaskan (and Canadian) moose. And they avg much larger than the moose of New England. I used a .30-30 stoked with Federal factory 170gr Nosler Partitions for moose hunting in AK. The Natives in the villages used regular Core-Lokt or Silvertip factory loads.


When it comes down to it, it's personal choice coupled with which rifle you can find at a reasonable price.

Mario
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That seems what I was thinking. I may stick to the 30-06 as looking around lever guns are more expensive then I thought! But, they will be a fun gun to get once I buy a new car. :18:
 
Wrong Information

Earlier in this thread, I stated that .444 Marlin brass could be formed from 30/40 Krag brass. I was wrong. This is a prime example of why I need to research a topic better rather than banging away off the cuff based using only my very fallible memory.
 
I personally like the .35 Rem. or the .45-70 for the applications you intend to use it for.
Check out Levergunlovers.com for some great info. Good luck in your choosing.
 
I beleive it was Calvin Rustum who wrote that when the 30-30 hit the market it was used sucessfully for moose and other big game like bears, it was the rave and no one hesitated to use it in this application.
 
I honestly think I will rarley if ever need more oomph then a 30-30 desires. I may look at wild cats once I have the money and make a 30-30 AI and have 30-40 krag balistics, or a 35-30 AI, which would be the bees knees.
 
I'm not completlet up to speed on the 30-30 AI, but I don't think it's realistic to get 30-40 ballistics from one. The guys that have them on the leverguns forum have discussed them when someone asks, I recall the answered generally being that you don't get as much as expected, (a couple say it wasnt really worth the trouble), and it comes at rather high chamber pressure to achieve much increase. Not to say some don't like them, just to keep it more in perspective, its not all free power.

For some more info on the 30-30 AI, try searching William Iorg's posts on shooters forum. He's done a lot of load work on various lever gun chamberings and posted his results, and has discussions with several guys that have also done load work.

I think it's all pretty interesting, but if one wants more power than a 30-30, a 307 is a good way to do it in the same basic platform. Just going to a 26" barrel, like some of the Winchester commemorative rifles have, gives a noticable velocity increase to the 30-30.

Just a few thoughts.


sasquatch said:
That seems what I was thinking. I may stick to the 30-06 as looking around lever guns are more expensive then I thought! But, they will be a fun gun to get once I buy a new car. :18:
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I quite agree leverguns are fun. I like them more than other types, but for a true general purpose rifle, an '06 is hard to beat. I rarely hunt with levers other than for grouse, and wanting a real gun in hand while doing it, but when hunting meat, it's most often a scoped '06.
 
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Beings that the 38-55 is my favorite rifle caliber I can't help but weigh in. As Malamute mentioned there can be a great deal of variation between rifles. I have three friends with exactly the same rifle I have - Marlin 336 Cowboy - and all of them are a law unto themselves when it comes to bore/chamber diameter. My rifle has a generous chamber and bore, like .380+" boolits. It'll also chamber anything. Another friend's has a tight chamber and requires the use of Starline brass for any bullet diameter greater than .378", Winchester brass is simply too fat, luckily his rifle will shoots those well. Those are the two extremes and the other two fall somewhere in the middle. If'n you decide to go down the 38-55 road be prepared to sort all that out.

As for on game performance I don't have personal experience with this caliber but have three pards who have taken Hogs, Bears, Elk, Antelope and Deer with theirs. All are experienced hunters and good shots. Put the bullet though the boiler room and you'll walk up to a dead critter either right where you shot him or near by.

The 38-55 is a super penetrater. It'll zip right through a critter leaving an impressive would channel and two fast leaking holes.

Marlin 336 vs. Milk Jugs - YouTube

The 38-55 is also very impressive at long range.

1000 yards, Marlin 336 Cowboy 38-55 - YouTube

336marlincowboy3855at600yards.jpg


owboybores.jpg

38-55 and 30-30 muzzle comparison

That being said the 30-30 has a lot going for it. Typically much less finicky about ammo, rarely have to buy brass as most guys will just give it to you. Capable of impressive accuracy and the versatility of the caliber is only surpassed by 308/30-06 (a bit better top end). There are literally millions of 30-30's out there and they're typically inexpensive. It's time tested and proven.

35 Remington is a great cartridge too. Easy to reload for and effective on game.

I really like my 45-70's. Excellent on game - devastating is the word I hear most by those seeing it harvest game, even at blackpowder velocities. But it does used up a lot of lead and powder, though I've recently started using Unique with excellent results.

Pretty hard to go wrong with a levergun.
 
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if your a handloader I say go with 38-55. its a great round that can take anything on this continent. those that are saying its good for just plinking ..I dont know what they are getting that info.
its a bigger bullet out of a bigger case. and if you get a gun that can handle the pressures like a marlin then you can get some amazing performance out of a 38-55.
my father has a model 94 legendary frontiersman in 38-55, and its a slug mumpin good time shootin' that thing with stoked up hand loads. we even took it on a buffalo hunt, unfortunatly we never got a shot off. but im sure it would have more than done the job, at reasonable distances of course.
plus its got a ton of old west cowboy feel.
not to take anything away from 30-30 its a great round in itself, but if you have got the means to handload 38-55 can be just as cheap and fun.
 
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