Rechargable Batteries?


Grey Ranger

Grey Ranger

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So i got to thinking,

Ive been using some old rechargeable batteries i got with a digital camera for my flashlights.
I think its a great idea, because the performance out of higher quality rechargeable batteries is much better than conventional batteries. They last longer, and shine brighter. You also don't have to buy new ones all the time, so its MUCH better for our wonderful planet!

Do any of you guys do the same?

With the advancement in battery technology recently, and the advent of the rechargeable Lithium Ion batteries, i would be surprised if this trend doesnt catch on. Li Ion's are tremendously more efficient than any other type of battery on the market today. This is why they are beginning to be used in all manner of high end electronics. If a range of consumer aftermarket batteries of this kid were available, It would be a tremendous advancement for outdoors, hiking, camping, backpacking electronic products, because people could depend on the electronics they take to perform longer and better. Not just Flashlights, but anything that takes conventional batteries.

Ive done a fair amount of internet searching to find rechargeable Li Ion AA, AAA, C and D size batteries. AA seems to be fairly common, but the other sizes seem to be either rare or non existent. What is out there is still pretty expensive too.

Does anybody know where to get them?
what do You guys think about this idea?
 
I use them also. When our wally world solar path lights quit I tore one apart and found 2 AA rechargeables inside. Tore the solar cap off, put in my own batteries and attach it to my pack when I go out.
 
emeraldcoastbear said:
Yes,rechargeable batteries, handcrank radio, crank flashlights. I believe superior battery technology is coming,and coming soon. I hope so anyway- ECBear
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Sooner than you think. I use LSD NiMH. The often come pre-charged and can hold a charge for more than a year. A few months ago I opened a pack from 08 and they still worked. Plus they can be recharged up to 1000 times. Eneloops are the best but Duracell sells rebagged eneloops in B&M. Just get the ones with white tops and say made in Japan. The back tops made in China are rebagged Rayovac Hybrids which are also ok but not as good.

http://www.eneloop.info/

http://www.duracell.com/en-US/product/rechargeable-staycharged-batteries.jspx

precharged.jpg


100_8779.jpg


180 lumens of solar powered fun.

solar180.jpg
 
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I like eneloops best but I've just bought some Soshine AAs and I have yet to test them. Will let you know how they work for me. Maybe I'll post a review.

PMZ
 
Recieved a GoalZero solar charger for Christmas will be experimenting with AA and AAA batteries for 2012. They say to only use their batteries with the charger but with some research we'll see if that is the absolute case.
 
Woods Walker said:
Sooner than you think. I use LSD NiMH. The often come pre-charged and can hold a charge for more than a year. A few months ago I opened a pack from 08 and they still worked. Plus they can be recharged up to 1000 times. Eneloops are the best but Duracell sells rebagged eneloops in B&M. Just get the ones with white tops and say made in Japan. The back tops made in China are rebagged Rayovac Hybrids which are also ok but not as good.

http://www.eneloop.info/

http://www.duracell.com/en-US/product/rechargeable-staycharged-batteries.jspx
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Exactly- Eneloops are the best- although the white top Duracell's aka Duraloops are rebranded Eneloops and likely made in the the same Japanese Factory- the LSD- Low Self Discharge- allows the Eneloops to hold about 85% of their charge for up to three years in storage- and they will pay for themselves quickly when used in high drain devices like digital cameras. They also have C and D plastic cell adapters that AA slides right up into- so AA will cover all your c and D cell needs as well.
 
I know consumer reports had an article about rechargeables and when its most cost efficient to use the high grade ones based on energy draw of the electronic device. Don't remember the results, just skimmed the article at my dads house. If you guys are near a magazine stand maybe check the article out.
 
I'll second (third? fourth?) the recommendation for Sanyo Eneloops. There are other LSD NIMH batteries on the market, but Eneloops are the most consistent in terms of quality. I'd also suggest the Maha Powerex c-9000 charger/analyzer. You'll get better performance and longer life from your batteries when using a quality charger.
 
grizzlyjoe said:
I know consumer reports had an article about rechargeables and when its most cost efficient to use the high grade ones based on energy draw of the electronic device. Don't remember the results, just skimmed the article at my dads house. If you guys are near a magazine stand maybe check the article out.
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Do you remember which issue of Consumer Reports? A recent one, I assume?
 
I am pretty sure it was the January issue. It had a report of cell phones on the cover and an article about arsenic in juices. I know he recently got it in the mail.
 
Come to think of it, the article may have just been on batteries and just had a brief bit about rechargeables.

This seems to be a short rundown
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2011/december/electronics-computers/batteries/overview/index.htm
 
I've been forced to use Li-ion batteries that were supplied with some electronics (e.g., my camera, cordless phone, etc.), but otherwise I've stayed away from them. The main reason is their instability/safety issues. Also, if they become fully discharged, they're usually toast. Outside their proprietary electronic device, they don't give any warning that they are nearly discharged.
After going through the 'memory' issues with NiCAD batteries, I've been using NiMH (Nickle Metal Hydride) batteries. They don't develop a 'memory', and can be recharged safely even when only partially discharged.
It was also interesting, in my research last year, to find that Duracell and Energizer batteries got the most publicity and raves, but weren't necessarily the best. There was a very simple test done at a university (I believe Princeton) where all they did was load several identical flashlights with various brands of "D" cell alkaline (Zi/Mn02) batteries, turn them on and record how long each set of batteries lasted.
The Energizer D cells lasted 12 hours. The Duracell batteries lasted 16 hours. But the Ray-O-Vac alkalines lasted 22 hours! Not surprisingly, the Ray-O-Vac batteries sell for 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of the other two!

Anyway, in the interest of consumerism, here's an article on Li-Ion batteries users might like to read, and a short excerpt from the write up. An unrelated article also stated that they could have catastrophic failure if charged below 0 C/32 F degrees. Something to consider if using a solar charger in the field in cold weather.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/lithium-ion-battery.htm


That is not to say that lithium-ion batteries are flawless. They have a few disadvantages as well:

They start degrading as soon as they leave the factory. They will only last two or three years from the date of manufacture whether you use them or not.
They are extremely sensitive to high temperatures. Heat causes lithium-ion battery packs to degrade much faster than they normally would.
If you completely discharge a lithium-ion battery, it is ruined.
A lithium-ion battery pack must have an on-board computer to manage the battery. This makes them even more expensive than they already are.
There is a small chance that, if a lithium-ion battery pack fails, it will burst into flame.
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Is it worth switching over to the stay charged type of rechargables?

I have about 40 rechargable energizer AA batteries that I got from the Army, many of which are still in the wrapper. It was a failed experiment by my unit to switch to all rechargables to save money, but didn't factor how to charge them in the field....

The issues I'm running into now is that they seem to only hold their charge for a month or so. I had charged up about 8 batteries to use in my flashlights, but they die out fast. If the newer rechargeables will stay charged for longer, it may be worth changing out my stock, but does it make that big of a difference.
 
intheshaw said:
Is it worth switching over to the stay charged type of rechargables?

I have about 40 rechargable energizer AA batteries that I got from the Army, many of which are still in the wrapper. It was a failed experiment by my unit to switch to all rechargables to save money, but didn't factor how to charge them in the field....

The issues I'm running into now is that they seem to only hold their charge for a month or so. I had charged up about 8 batteries to use in my flashlights, but they die out fast. If the newer rechargeables will stay charged for longer, it may be worth changing out my stock, but does it make that big of a difference.
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Sounds like my experience with NiCAD batteries. They only recharge to about 90% (1.35v) even the first time around, and die quick.
I know a lot of people disagree with me, but I think a guy is better off getting a quality charger that will rejuvenate Alkaline batteries, buying cheap Alkalines, pumping them back up 2-3 times and then pitching them away.
 
My experience has been good with Energizer and Duracell rechargeables. I have both and I really can't tell a difference. The 15 minute charger works great, but it only works with AA's. I had an earlier trickle charger that took AA's and AAA's and I just assumed the big 15 minute charger would do both but it only does AA's. Well, I'm trying to focus my battery power onto a single power source so that really just means replacing the headlamp to one that takes AA's instead of AAA's.

Anyhow, I do tend to overstock (bring about 12 spare AA's) with me, but I have multiple gear that uses them. Maybe the $12 per 2 battery Li noncharables last longer, but every time you re-charge your batteries and get them working again it makes you smile thinking of not having to go to the store and buy some more....
 
In the spirit of desperation, I learned a trick many years ago when the only thing available were carbon batteries. Put tired batteries in a 150 degree oven for about 30 minutes and get another 4-5 hours out of them.
I wouldn't advise it with any of the new batteries, including alkaline, though. :eek:
 
Maha's low discharge nimh are excellent. I switched to them last year and have been impressed with them.
 
I definitely need to geet more 'green' with bat use...good thread
 
stillman said:
Maha's low discharge nimh are excellent. I switched to them last year and have been impressed with them.
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Did you buy the powerex charger with them?

I used to have a set of their 9v rechargables with charger about 8 years ago but I haven't bought anything from them since. I have some of those cheaper energizer chargers and NiMH batteries but I am not impressed with them.
 
Ok here a bit of my input. I am a battery reseller for both cell phone batteries to a very wide range of folks, and the more exotic sized batteries to a smaller audience. I use li-ion batteries on a daily basis. In fact I make custom light sabers that are battle ready. My 4 year old kid has been banging and whacking on a un protected li-ion light saber for about 2 years now. They are just as safe as a NIMH cell if respected. NIMH scared teh crap outta everyone too I am sure.

Quick bit of info:
li-ion batteries come in many sizes including the normal: aa, aaa, c, d, etc. Most will fit in the same sized battery holder but note, these are 3.6 volt batteries and not 1.5 like normal cells. This will fry most devices not built for it.

li-ion batteries come either un-protected or protected. Protected usually means that they have a over-discharge detection circuit which turns off the battery as well as some charging monitoring. IF your worried about li-ions going boom - get protected cells and use a good charger. As with any battery charging the key to safety is monitoring. All batteries have the chemical ability to go boom. Li-ions just do it a bit more spectacularly.

NIMH batteries are available in whats called a low self discharge. These type of nimh cells will greatly increase their out of use shelf life. If a device REQUIRES there always to be good batteries or a fresh charge look into proper trickle charging the NIMH at 0.0033 C, this will reduce overall life span of course. In devices I NEED to have always powered I use alkalines or set up a charger.

NICD SUCKS. DONT BUY THEM. If you currently use them do yourself and the world a favor, take them to a recycler and grab a new set of nimh cells.

Charging li-ions can be a pain in the arse. You need special circuits with voltage and current sensing and all that good stuff. With a NIMH cell you can pretty much just add power. Of course you need to know the values of said power, but its pretty simple. Lets say you have 4 aa sized nimh batteries. Those are around 2000maH. You could hack a usb cable for the male end and attach it to a 3 d battery holder. Most usb plugs output 100maH to 500maH depending upon your motherboard. 4 aa cells = 4.8 just a tad bit lower than the 5v output of your usb. This is a "dirty" example as its not ideal. But it would charge the batteries up to get some use out of them. That said, its real easy to charge from a solar panel.

When it comes down to it I use both NIMH and LI-ION. NIMH usualy give me more working hours but of course requires a large amount of physical space to obtain any decent voltage. With LI-ION high voltage is easily achieved but at the loss of runtime. I do try and get/make devices that can handle the voltage of either the NIMH or Li-ion. I have a flashlight design in the works that will function from as low as .8 volts (a really dead battery nimh, alkaline or even a nicd) up to 10.8v (3 li-ion's). My current favorite cell is a NIMH with 5000 maH thats smaller than a C cell and fits inside of a 1 inch piece of pvc.

end rant...apologies... I like batteries.
 
ajnin said:
... With a NIMH cell you can pretty much just add power. Of course you need to know the values of said power, but its pretty simple. Lets say you have 4 aa sized nimh batteries. Those are around 2000maH. You could hack a usb cable for the male end and attach it to a 3 d battery holder. Most usb plugs output 100maH to 500maH depending upon your motherboard. 4 aa cells = 4.8 just a tad bit lower than the 5v output of your usb. This is a "dirty" example as its not ideal. But it would charge the batteries up to get some use out of them. ...
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True or False: The way I read that, I could take a battery holder for 4 AA batteries,
(Like this)
pRS1C-2160146w345.jpg

connect it to a USB cable and charge them off my USB port? What about polarity?
Fascinating.....
 
I use rechargables in all my flashlights, and in a couple of smaller things such as my mini-led lantern, and digital camera.

You lose a bit of brightness but it's negligible.

Ni-MH 1.2 volts
Ni-CD 1.2 volts
Alkaline 1.5 volts
Lithium 3.6 volts
 
Old Philosopher said:
True or False: The way I read that, I could take a battery holder for 4 AA batteries,
(Like this)
pRS1C-2160146w345.jpg

connect it to a USB cable and charge them off my USB port? What about polarity?
Fascinating.....
Click to expand...

Yes polarity matters. And again, its not a great method, but it would work. Mostly I was pointing out that its really easy to charge nimh batteries. I

very+simple+battery+charger+using+LM317.jpg


Heres a very basic charger that would cost only a couple bucks from radio shack. The details for the values of the resistor are in the lm317 datasheet. Something like this could handle a input of about 5v up to 30v (with a heatsink on the lm317). It would take anywhere from a couple hours up to about 15.

As for the 4 aa battery holder I would use 3 cells and build my circuit inside the 4th.
 
DougsOutdoors said:
I use rechargables in all my flashlights, and in a couple of smaller things such as my mini-led lantern, and digital camera.

You lose a bit of brightness but it's negligible.

Ni-MH 1.2 volts
Ni-CD 1.2 volts
Alkaline 1.5 volts
Lithium 3.6 volts
Click to expand...

Remember thats like saying a 2x4 piece of lumber actually measures 2" x 4".

Nimh can peak up to 1.6 volts, usually a full charge is around 1.4.
Alkaline up to 1.8 usually at 1.6.
Li-Ion up to 4.2, but really depends on the cell in question as each is a bit different and when dealing with them it sometimes matters.
 
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