Rock Island 1911 Government


Awasos

Awasos

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IN October I purchased a Rock Island Armory 1911. I love the gun. Put about 150 round through it with the original and a surplus clip. No problems. Seems tight and good quality for what it is. But it consistently shoots low and left. At first I thought it was me pulling down and left as I squeezed the trigger. But a hard rest produces the same thing. 4-6 inches down 2 inches left at 25 yards.

So I just take the entire front sight above the top of the back sight. It seems that as I continue to break the gun in it shoots a little higher. But don't know.

I was wondering if anyone has a good replacement sight recommendation. Something low profile and something I do not need to cut the back of the slide or a dove tail in the front. Suggestions would be appreciated.
 
I have the same gun in 9mm. I love it! Mine seems off a bit too but I think it's a combo of me and the sights. I think I'm going to change the sights to something after market but no money right now. After a few boxes of ammo through it I pulled it apart, cleaned it and hand polished the feed ramp. It feeds better now.
 
Not saying it is for sure but I think you may be jerking the trigger. Take a look at this chart. Again I am not sure but I have seen this happen before and it may help. How much weight is the trigger pull? It might mean you could use a trigger job.
 

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Yellow Lab's diagram is very accurate (no pun intended) for getting a good idea of what's happening.

Point of impact of about 7 o'clock for a right-handed shooter is generally the fingers tightening as the trigger is squeezed.

PM if interested and I can give you a little tip to help.
 
I have a Rock Island 1911, and it jams with any ammo except for Remington UMC's. It's the only gun I regret buying. That said, If you shoot other pistols fine it probably isn't you jerking the trigger. But a good way to find out is by having a buddy stand behind you and load one bullet for you, cocked and locked and hand the gun to you without you knowing whether he loaded it or not. And then try to shoot. Do this several times with him either loading it hot, or faking it. When you pull the trigger on an empty chamber thinking its hot, you will see the jerk big time, if you do indeed jerk.
 
I have the same one but have no problem with accuracy. If you can't find anything and you bench shoot it with the same results, I would have someone take a look at it.

I was shooting mine the other day at 25 Yards and producing a tight, center mass group.
 
tanman2003 said:
I have a Rock Island 1911, and it jams with any ammo except for Remington UMC's. It's the only gun I regret buying. That said, If you shoot other pistols fine it probably isn't you jerking the trigger. But a good way to find out is by having a buddy stand behind you and load one bullet for you, cocked and locked and hand the gun to you without you knowing whether he loaded it or not. And then try to shoot. Do this several times with him either loading it hot, or faking it. When you pull the trigger on an empty chamber thinking its hot, you will see the jerk big time, if you do indeed jerk.
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Have your feed ramp polished by someone who knows wht they are doing and put in a stiffer slide return spring. Should clear up your feed problems.
 
I really have never read anything good about these pistols. I shot one once and it just felt clunky and not well fit. Personally i would stick to a pistol with a better reputation. I have 4 1911's. 2 Springfields (mil spec and the TRP), a Kimber (pro carry II) and a Wilson Combat. The worst part is my favorite one is the one i paid the least for. The Springfield TRP. Got it at a gunshow for $500 bucks because the previous owner said he was having failures to feed and eject. As soon as i opened the action i knew what was wrong. The gun is stainless and the inside was black. This guy obviously had no idea what a cleaning kit or oil was for. Big bonus for me though. Take this with me everywhere. If you can afford one, get it. Smoothest gun i own.
 
TheGeoSquirrel said:
Have your feed ramp polished by someone who knows wht they are doing and put in a stiffer slide return spring. Should clear up your feed problems.
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I already put a stiffer return spring and polished the feed ramp, although you did stipulate having someone know what they are doing do it...:4:

I've decided to just not put anymore money into it, and learned a lesson that 1911's either have to be a Colt or expensive to work perfectly.

I sport a Dan Wesson Pointman 7 now, and a WWII issue Colt 1911, both have never failed once with any round, even reloads.
 
tanman2003 said:
I already put a stiffer return spring and polished the feed ramp, although you did stipulate having someone know what they are doing do it...:4:

I've decided to just not put anymore money into it, and learned a lesson that 1911's either have to be a Colt or expensive to work perfectly.

I sport a Dan Wesson Pointman 7 now, and a WWII issue Colt 1911, both have never failed once with any round, even reloads.
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If you changed the angle at all polishing the ramp you will not help at all. Here is a place to ask about your pistol.

www.1911forum.com
 
I have never had any feed problems with mine. I shoot fmj ball, lead and hp. I use the 8 round mag that came with the gun and some 7 rnd surplus mags. It shoots good groups.

It does have a little trigger creep compaired to my tc contender and ruger single six.

Other then that a tight gun.
 
tanman2003 said:
Did not change the angle just hit it with some polishing compound and buffed it with a dremel.

Sorry, did not intend to hijack the thread.
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Dremel should not be anywhere near your gun....those are dangerous.

Not trying to be critical, just my advice.

It's a good looking gun. I have wanted to get my hands on a RIA, just to see. I have heard those who love them, but more so those who hate them. Makes me wonder...
 
On occasion the barrel bushing or the barrel itself can be improperly fitted. Like the guys mentioned it might be your trigger pull and that awesome target posted will solve that.

If it is not the above mentioned (among other things) then a set of adjustable sights can help. However before buying sights you might look into having the gun checked for any of the problems the guys have mentioned.

I say that because a respected shooting buddy of mine has a RI 1911 and has nothing but praise for the gun at its price level. Keep us updated and good luck!
 
Awasos said:
IN October I purchased a Rock Island Armory 1911. I love the gun. Put about 150 round through it with the original and a surplus clip. No problems. Seems tight and good quality for what it is. But it consistently shoots low and left. At first I thought it was me pulling down and left as I squeezed the trigger. But a hard rest produces the same thing. 4-6 inches down 2 inches left at 25 yards.

So I just take the entire front sight above the top of the back sight. It seems that as I continue to break the gun in it shoots a little higher. But don't know.

I was wondering if anyone has a good replacement sight recommendation. Something low profile and something I do not need to cut the back of the slide or a dove tail in the front. Suggestions would be appreciated.
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Check on Brownells http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=10586/k=/t=P/psize=48/Products/Rear-Sights
 
To the OP look into getting a set of wilson three dot sights. Had them on my Govt mod Colt and my Springfield. Very good sight for the price, tough,sturdy, and stood up to the rigors of Law Enforcement. Dident have to change the dovetails.

To Tanman, I suggest you take you Rockisland and have it checked out by a gunsmith. We have sold lots of Citidel's, Rockislands etc... out of the shop I work at and people do nothing but rave about them. We have people who own Kimbers and Les bear customs that have very high praise for the Citidels and Rockislands. I did have a police dept armorer say that he has seen a few that have had problems and his statement was he had heard that sometimes the guns that came out of the factory on a Friday or a Monday had some problems because folks wanting to get out of there and not giving the same attention or recovering from a bad weekend.
 
Awasos said:
IN October I purchased a Rock Island Armory 1911. I love the gun. Put about 150 round through it with the original and a surplus clip. No problems. Seems tight and good quality for what it is. But it consistently shoots low and left. At first I thought it was me pulling down and left as I squeezed the trigger. But a hard rest produces the same thing. 4-6 inches down 2 inches left at 25 yards.

So I just take the entire front sight above the top of the back sight. It seems that as I continue to break the gun in it shoots a little higher. But don't know.

I was wondering if anyone has a good replacement sight recommendation. Something low profile and something I do not need to cut the back of the slide or a dove tail in the front. Suggestions would be appreciated.
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First - make sure it's not you.

So the question is - what load are you shooting? In a handgun, heavier bullets will shoot higher and lighter bullets will shoot lower. Are you using the 230gr load that the gun was designed around? If you are and it still shoots low, filing carefully off the front sight will bring the groups up. Have someone who knows how much to file for the given result do it. The rear sight is drift-adjustable. Once you've settled on a favorite load, you can have a gunsmith push it over for you with a sight adjustment tool. Just tell him exactly how far off your groups are consistently hitting and at what range.

There are replacement sights available. Pinned-in front sights like that on your RI Government model come in narrow and wide tenon versions.
The front sight on your Rock, IIRC, is a narrow tenon. It's been a while since I did mine, so you want to make sure on that. You have to make sure that the rear sight fits your dovetail, since there are several different dovetail cuts in use. I don't remember what RI uses, but you can call them and ask. Pretty sure if you call King's Gunworks, they can answer your questions and provide the sights. That's where I got my larger sights for my RI Gvt.

http://www.kingsgunworks.com/

You will need a gunsmith to install the new sights. If your eyes are good enough to see the stock sights, I recommend sticking with them and working with a gunsmith to get them adjusted. The RI is worth spending a little money on getting it where you want it.
 
tanman2003 said:
I already put a stiffer return spring and polished the feed ramp, although you did stipulate having someone know what they are doing do it...:4:

I've decided to just not put anymore money into it, and learned a lesson that 1911's either have to be a Colt or expensive to work perfectly.

I sport a Dan Wesson Pointman 7 now, and a WWII issue Colt 1911, both have never failed once with any round, even reloads.
Click to expand...

For some reason, the popular myth for "fixing" a problem 1911 is to increase the spring rate and polish the ramp. Sometimes doing one or both will get the gun running, but it is more often the wrong thing to do. The first priority should be to determine why the gun is malfunctioning. The 1911 is a well-known machine with plenty of proven methods of diagnosing and fixing problems. Those methods are known and practiced by the better gun mechanics who have a track record of success with the 1911. It ain't voodoo or even an art form. I suggest you check out m1911.org and read all the stickys in the gunsmithing and technical issues forums. Pay particular attention to anything written by 1911Tuner.

http://forum.m1911.org/forums.php

BTW - the most common problem with an otherwise good 1911 is an out-of-tune extractor. Extractor tuning is something you can learn to do yourself without much expense or bother. My own RI came with such an extractor. It worked pretty well, but not perfect. Putting what I learned from the m1911.org website into practice, I tuned the extractor so that the gun runs perfectly. This is a really good place to start, because extractors are cheap and easy to replace (in case you bugger it). Conversely, if you bugger the barrel and/or the frame, a real fix can be very expensive. Many 1911 frames have suffered expensive buggering at the hands of someone who read something on the 'net and applied a Dremel.

In case you didn't get my hint above...increasing the recoil spring rate or applying a Dremel to the ramp can both be very harmful to your 1911. Know what you are doing and why, before you tinker. There are too many badly buggered 1911s on the used market.

edit: add:Seems like a good time to link to this thread. I hope that's allowed here. On the subject of polishing the 1911 ramp...

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=12190

Note that "George Smith", who posted in this thread is the president of Evolution Gun Works. Hang around the 1911 crowd a while and you'll notice that company name being repeated with reverence.
 
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Holmesmade said:
The old school sight like you have on your RRI are adjustable with a needle file.

Since you've already got a few hundred rounds through it to shake everything into place, a few careful touches to the inside left of the rear sight will bring your group to the right and a few careful touches to the top of the front sight will bring the group up.
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THAT'S BACKWARDS!!!!

Move the rear sight in the direction you want your groups to move! Filing on the left side of the notch will move groups left. Filing the top of the rear sight will bring groups down. The accepted method of raising groups with fixed sights is to file the top of the front sight.

And besides, there is no need to file on the rear sight. It is adjustable for windage by pressing one way or the other with a sight adjustment tool. You don't have to fiddle with trial and error. It's a simple math/geometry problem. If you know the amount you want your groups to move and the distance to the target, you can calculate the exact amount to move the sights. Hence - one trip to the gunsmith and a minimal fee.
 
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You know, I always hear people say that the RIA is a fine gun " for what it is", "for the money", "as well as could be expected". I don't get it. I have the Tac version in .45, and I love it. It shoots straight, no matter what I feed it, and does so every time. Tight fitting, and easy on the eyes as well. Not sure what more you could want from your 1911.

Oh, and these are series 70 models as well. Like JMB, and JC intended. ;)

Paul
 
I have to agree, Paul. Even the RIA Government model is a good pistol...period. No, it isn't a Les Baer or even a Colt - but it is good in it's own right.

Personally, I appreciate handguns as works of art and I appreciate finely-tuned target pieces...but I don't have any burning desire for one. I like the parked finish on the RIA GI and the simplicity of that model. It works for me and there is no nonsense to get in the way. I don't like forward slide serrations, full-length-guide-rods, skeletonized triggers, beavertail grip safeties, extended levers, and all that. I don't need stainless or finely blued finishes and I don't want a gun fitted so tight that it jams with the slightest fouling. I don't need competition-grade accuracy. Why would I want to pay for all that?

I just want good accuracy and reliability with a pistol that I'm not afraid to put to harsh use, and the RIA 1911 fills that at a fair price. Yes, you may have to do a little "tune-up" on one, but the price is still fair and anyone who lives with any 1911 should learn how to perform these minor tasks or have someone at hand to do them anyway.
 
Thanks for all the advise. I think I run another hundred rounds through it and see where it is then. Seems like it is breaking in a bit or maybe I am getting better with my follow through. Dont seem to have the same problem whit my SA revolvers, but the triggers are different. The I will take all your advice one step at a time.

Thanks again
 
nothinghead said:
Dremel should not be anywhere near your gun....those are dangerous.
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Sorry but I didn't specify. A dremel with a felt tip and some polishing compound isn't going to do anything to change the shape of the feed ramp. Its not like I took a rock to it.

If I did anything, I just cleaned the feed ramp.

My RI 1911 did not have a failure to eject issue, it had a problem with failing to return to battery. An extractor would have done nothing. I believe the depth of the seating of the bullet in the casing is the main cause of the failure, either with head spacing issues or the overall angle of the feed ramp.

My experience shows that 1911's while cool, are finicky guns, and you really get what you paid for. My RI 1911 is the only gun I own that I do not trust my life with.
 
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Tanman - I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I really think you should consider that you have a lot to learn about the 1911. Polishing with a Dremel can cause problems. Yes even simple polishing. Read the link with the post by George Smith of EGW. Extractor problems can and often do cause feeding problems including failure to go into battery. A lot is written about that by qualified gun mechanics on m1911.com. I have tested some of this very issue myself and seen the difference. It's no big feaat for an extractor to extract empties, but on a 1911, the extractor is a critical part of the "controlled-feed" system. It's easy to get it right, but it must be right.

I do believe you are correct that you generally do get what you pay for in a 1911, but that doesn't mean a basic 1911 cannot be made accurate and reliable for a low price. It's just a machine. When the machine is built within specs, it will work. Even if slightly out of spec on minor points, bringing it up to snuff is just a matter of trouble-shooting and then doing the appropriate fix - which is usually cheap.

But you can't get it right without the proper knowledge. Sorry, I have to insist (if only for others who may be reading) that using the Dremel was exactly the wrong thing to do. Even just the buffing wheel. And improper extractor tension will definitely effect the pistol's reliability in going into battery.

My cheap RIA isn't finicky about ammo at all. It eats hardball, hollowpoint, and semi-wadcutter ammo all with no problems. It isn't finicky about anything else either. Nothing special has been done to it other than tuning the extractor (which was causing an occasional failure to go into battery), using good mags, and fitting an "original-spec" firing pin stop.
 
Tanman,

One thing I have read many times. Most of your feeding problems can be traced back to your magazine. I can post a link to same info if you would like.

One thing I have found, there are really 3 types of mags. the difference is in the feed lips. Have you tried any different makers? A lot of people prefer Chip or Wilson Combat over the Act mags that came with the gun.

Paul
 
The ACT mags are made well, and can work if your 1911 is within spec. But there are better mags that will be more forgiving of minor departures. I have had excellent results from mags made to Colt's current specs. The current Colt 7-round mags and those made by Checkmate (one of the current contractors for Colt) to Colt's specs are a good bet. They are what's considered a "hybrid" design - the lips being shaped to allow controlled-feed with ball, HP, and SWC rounds. These are not cheap, but also not expensive. Beware that there are counterfeit "Colt" mags out there that are trash. If you have ever examined a real Colt mag, you can recognize the counterfeits straight out.

One important thing the ACT mags lack (besides the "hybrid" lips - the ACTs have "wadcutter" lips) is the bump on the follower that is in the Colt spec. That bump is there for a purpose. Not having it can allow misfeeds on the last round. One form of such misfeed that may not be evident right away is the "push feed" that results from that last round being shifted ahead of the extractor. The gun may function okay, but the extractor is subjected to accelerated wear due to snapping over the rim.

Anyway - if I had a misfeeding 1911, the first thing I might try (after tuning the extractor, which is free) is changing out the mag - to one of Colt specs. Even if it is a Colt mag, I'd try another in case that one is damaged or defective.
 
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