Stainless reconsidered


briarbrow

briarbrow

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As I often read, and like many of you I prefer simple high carbon steel for my edged tools. Maybe because my granpa shared his strong opinion often enough and would disassemble a good used sodbuster to insert a blade he made himself since he was so sure that old steel was better than the new version.

So anyways I'm watching Ancient Aliens the other night rerun when it is mentioned that some old swords were so esteemed because of their ability to resist oxidation thus stayed sharp longer....

I know a highly polished carbon steel is better at resisting oxidation than rough finish(now I know you dudes love to praise patina but that dont work at the edge)

But I was thinking of that extra knife- the one you never use but carry as a back up on a long trip or stored away just in case; maybe there is an added point for some kind of SS there that us Dyed Wool simple steel heads should consider... just one stainless blade just in case
 
The Buck knives are SS, and my Folding Hunter is a perfect back up, pocket carry always there blade.

In addition, I have found the Mora SS made with the Sandvik steel to be about as good as their carbon blades, all things considered. Heresy, I know. ;)

I steel prefer the 1095 and O1 steels for custom blades and high end production knives, but I may be hanging on to an old and useless prejudice.

Still, it works for me.
 
GreyOne said:
I steel prefer the 1095 and O1 steels for custom blades and high end production knives, but I may be hanging on to an old and useless prejudice.
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Those above mentioned steels are easier to field sharpen with a normal sharpening stone.

Stainless is generally harder so I would recommend a diamond knife sharpener for the field.
 
I'm very pro stainless when it's called for. My fishing knives, tool box blades, and my hunting knives. I carried a stainless Buck for years and love how it holds up to the elements. I like blue steel for wood work (1075,1095) but actually gravitate more towards the tool steels for bushcrafting. They seem to rust less.
 
the buck paclites are 420HC I kept mine razor sharp with the window strop when I was using it everyday in MN this fall. seemed easily as workable as carbon.
 
I have an old Spyderco Endura that is stainless. Sharp as hell, stays sharp, and looks pretty too.
 
old and useless prejudice.

It's silly I know, but I have this affinity for simple high carbon like it is somehow remotely related the the very first s t e e l.

maybe we take it for granted today but steel is so far ahead of all the other edges man has developed. Stainless is like a nicotine patch vs. fine hand rolled cigar, trying to solve the problem of excess and careless use
 
There are very few steels that I don't like. The poorly heat treated, imported alloy stuff is about the only ones I don't. There is some great new stuff out there along side the old tried and true. It's a great time to be a knife, axe and cutlery fan.
 
Ah I get on the bandwagon easy with stainless bashing. It's good stuff. Great choice for a working knife or a backup piece or about any tool for that matter. It's good stuff.

IMHO carbon steel is great stuff...for the uses where it is. For just about everything where corrosion is a consideration, stainless.

I have ss blades, I have carbon. I like leather, wood and patina-ed blades. Nice stainless shiny is pretty, it's a use and forget material.
 
doggiecareman said:
There are very few steels that I don't like. The poorly heat treated, imported alloy stuff is about the only ones I don't. There is some great new stuff out there along side the old tried and true. It's a great time to be a knife, axe and cutlery fan.
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A stainless axe? who do dat

One of the things I've been hankerin' for is a week on the winter beach like national seashore in Tx. where you can camp and fire. The only time I've been there it was 20*F so my view of the population density may be skewed, but it is a nice place.

_
 
I'll do you one better than stainless for rust resistence; my backup blade around my neck is Talonite.
 
Heat treating and design of the blade matter a whole lot more than the steel once you get to the "good" steels carbon or stainless.

I carry an S30V as my EDC folder. It is always as sharp as I left it. I NEED diamond stones to sharpen it.

I carry carbon steel in the woods or around the farm. It is quick and easy to sharpen, but needs constant use and attention or it will lose its edge.
 
Gryphonblade said:
Ah I get on the bandwagon easy with stainless bashing. It's good stuff. Great choice for a working knife or a backup piece or about any tool for that matter. It's good stuff.

IMHO carbon steel is great stuff...for the uses where it is. For just about everything where corrosion is a consideration, stainless.

I have ss blades, I have carbon. I like leather, wood and patina-ed blades. Nice stainless shiny is pretty, it's a use and forget material.
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It may be. Not that it is a use and forget material, but that there is a general attitude of use and forrget that seems to extend to all things.

I use plenty of "high tech" gear. Most is related to sleeping.

I replied to a comment Iz made in another thread about caring what other people use, but it made me wonder -heck, why do I care so much about what I use, and stainless steel tools is sure enough a line in the sand for me.

Like my Gpa a knife or tool in constant use there is no need to be concerned about oxidation. I was excited to discover a use for SS-a knife you never expect to use
 
I use both, but a tool is a tool is a tool...minus tradition, minus preference, add survivability...you are going to want the right tool for the job in a perfect condition. But if you have to bank your survival for years on limited gear...what's wrong with stainless. I would prefer something I don't have to worry about corroding and falling apart cause i've been getting chased by the enemy or stuck in a nature survival situation for an extended period of time.

Bushcrafting is a lot of old traditional ways, but I believe that is for the benefit of knowledge of how to do things with the simplest gear. It gives me the skills and confidence to KNOW I CAN using mostly what I've learned and little else.
People saying I'm not a bushcrafter because I use a led headlamp, a lighter, and stainless steel knife are crazy in my opinion lol. I know I can do things with less, which is why I love bushcrafting, but I'm not gonna be stupid and throw away or disregard a shotgun in place of a bow and arrow when I'm in the thick of it.
There is fun factor and then there is survival lol. Sorry, don't mean for this to sound like a rant...just sayin.
 
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Binalith said:
the buck paclites are 420HC I kept mine razor sharp with the window strop when I was using it everyday in MN this fall. seemed easily as workable as carbon.
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Agreed! I love the lil skinner! Good edge retention, gets quite sharp. My first stainless knife in quite a while. 420HC has my head turned!
 
I've been using a Randall that is made of ats-34. I'm liking it so far, I can sharpen it on sandpaper with no problems. Stainless steels have come a long way since the early days when they first got a bad rap. You just gotta know what you're buying. Some steels are geared for long lasting edge retention (hard to sharpen) and some are geared for toughness ( won't hold an edge as good usually). There are reasons that makers make different knife patterns and use different steels, it's not just about using the sexiest new stuff on the market. Usually anyway.
 
Jin said:
I use both, but a tool is a tool is a tool...minus tradition, minus preference, add survivability...you are going to want the right tool for the job in a perfect condition. But if you have to bank your survival for years on limited gear...what's wrong with stainless. I would prefer something I don't have to worry about corroding and falling apart cause i've been getting chased by the enemy or stuck in a nature survival situation for an extended period of time.

Bushcrafting is a lot of old traditional ways, but I believe that is for the benefit of knowledge of how to do things with the simplest gear. It gives me the skills and confidence to KNOW I CAN using mostly what I've learned and little else.
People saying I'm not a bushcrafter because I use a led headlamp, a lighter, and stainless steel knife are crazy in my opinion lol. I know I can do things with less, which is why I love bushcrafting, but I'm not gonna be stupid and throw away or disregard a shotgun in place of a bow and arrow when I'm in the thick of it.
There is fun factor and then there is survival lol. Sorry, don't mean for this to sound like a rant...just sayin.
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I am not much for survival or prepping. I have read the classic Greek stories where the hero runs headlong to avoid his fate and runs straight into his fate.

90% of the time I never oil a blade. I usually only have a thing happen if I fail to clean the blade, have made a bad sheath or a good sheath gets contaminated. Also I never live outside for month(s) with minimal tools for repair.

my pocket knives are SS because it costs a fortune to get on that is not. I have some flaw that wont let me see a fixed blade in the same light, prefer to edc a short pukko or mora.
 
Iz said:
I've been using a Randall that is made of ats-34. I'm liking it so far, I can sharpen it on sandpaper with no problems. Stainless steels have come a long way since the early days when they first got a bad rap. You just gotta know what you're buying. Some steels are geared for long lasting edge retention (hard to sharpen) and some are geared for toughness ( won't hold an edge as good usually). There are reasons that makers make different knife patterns and use different steels, it's not just about using the sexiest new stuff on the market. Usually anyway.
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For sure I have learned that the steel is less important than the skill of the man making the tool so it is best to go with what he feels comfortable with.

I'm not sure how it is determined what cuts better or longer or is most ductile.
Surely there is bias even when trying not to. It is said that even observation can alter results of quantitative testing.

I am partially sure that very different sorts of edges can be made with diamond vs. natural stone...

it just feels weird, at this late date, to suddenly be aware that it was never the whole knife rusting that was ever a concern, only the very edge
 
I have no problem with stainless steel. It's not right for every knife (machetes) but neither is carbon steel (dive knives). I live by the sea in a high humidity, high salt-air environment so I see the benefits of both and choose accordingly. The early stainless steels that some of our grandfathers had exposure to were inferior to alloys available today especially used in knife blades. No metal is perfect for all uses, everything is a compromise in one way or the other. ;)
 
Ahnkochee said:
I have no problem with stainless steel. It's not right for every knife (machetes) but neither is carbon steel (dive knives). I live by the sea in a high humidity, high salt-air environment so I see the benefits of both and choose accordingly. The early stainless steels that some of our grandfathers had exposure to were inferior to alloys available today especially used in knife blades. No metal is perfect for all uses, everything is a compromise in one way or the other. ;)
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yep every one is a compromise and we make our choices.

What did the old timers do in your neck of the sea prior to SS?
 
I have some knives that are comprised of good stainless and I love those knives. Given a choice I'll choose carbon steel. If I was in a very wet environment I would choose to own more stainless knives. Stainless just doesn't give me the warm feeling that carbon steel does.
 
briarbrow said:
What did the old timers do in your neck of the sea prior to SS?
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Good question. My dad was commercial fisherman before he went to war and was an US Army Amphibious Engineer in the Pacific Theater building and delivering new landing crafts (mostly LCMs) as well as disposing of old hulls as well as making multiple beach landings in the Philippines. I wish he was still around (passed away in 2007) to ask him. I do have his Case Army issue knife which he carried throughout the conflict some 3 years, and the blade is in pristine condition which looks deep blued. The pommel rusted off years ago and he rebuilt it with an epoxy cap which I added a turk's-head to. I really wonder how he kept it so nice looking. Wish I bothered to ask. :rolleyes: He was a real proponent of stainless steel knives when they first came out but then again he was a waterman extraordinaire.
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I don't understand why stainless / carbon is such an issue. If we were racing F1 and discussing high performance parts where every single % of performance saves or costs you millions I would understand. For the most part though, the issue is wether you take the extra 5 minutes of time to read up on the characteristics of the steel to know how best to sharpen it.

This is such a non issue that I believe that it really deserves to be confined to arm-chair bushcrafters who debate the details more than they actually bushcraft. When I look at the knives I have used most in my life, I find that they are largely made of stainless. My Victorinox, Buck and Gerber are all stanless, as are my Fallknivens. The performance of each of these knives has been nothing short of stellar.

Paul.
 
Agree with samthedog ,but i like to use carbon steels for personal self made blades because we can differrentialy harden them "the back is softer than the edge"makes it less prone to break in fact if it's done right you can bend to 90 degrees wth out damageing the edge .this is not possible with stainless that i'm aware of as of now but i could be wrong .other than that if we dont need a real tough blade then yea stainless will do for most all jobs ,oh and i just like messin with the forge hammer ,what about laminates any body like those ?
 
.338WinMag said:
Agree with samthedog ,but i like to use carbon steels for personal self made blades because we can differrentialy harden them "the back is softer than the edge"makes it less prone to break in fact if it's done right you can bend to 90 degrees wth out damageing the edge .this is not possible with stainless that i'm aware of as of now but i could be wrong .other than that if we dont need a real tough blade then yea stainless will do for most all jobs ,oh and i just like messin with the forge hammer ,what about laminates any body like those ?
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I have both laminated carbon and stainless blades. I have found that they perform quite well and are very much alike. Considering that the stainless is 62 HRC and the carbon is 60 HRC, they are both pretty tough to sharpen but hold an edge for a long time.

I think you can differentially harden a stainless blade although the extra time, effort and skill required to do this would mean the average hobbyist wouldn't bother. When you refer to a tough blade that can be bent to 90 degrees, what kind of use would you see the knife doing day to day? I ask because differentially hardened knives tend to cost more and because of that, are usually not used in such a rough way.

Paul.
 
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