Is the American Dream Dead?


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Seasonal summer work living the dream is totally the American dream and nightmare at the same time. Definitely a majority white kid proposition.

Really seams the American Dream is true if you are white American Dude.

For immigrants they have ice and shattered dreams.

How does it make you old white guys feel to live the dream as Palestinian kids are starved and killed and Russia continues to try and take over Ukraine?

We can not isolate from the bigger truth that the world is finite with to many to sustain and at our luxury and Dream many others are suffering and dying.
I sleep fine.
Maybe because I don't break other nation's laws, for one thing.
And I had nothing to do with causing the situations in Palestine or Ukraine.
Doesn't mean I necessarily like some of the stuff occurring, but I don't feel guilty about it at all.

I went to an Indian college. Could have had a full ride if I had went into nursing and agreed to 10 years working for the BIA in an Indian hospital of their choice.
Oh...we were Indians back then, by the way. None of this indigenous people tripe, even though maybe that's more accurate.

So, no, I have no guilt. Sympathy to a point, maybe. But no guilt.
 
The jobs that were originally posted above in MT were total crap.

Alaska is a different beast as you now. A local friend has deep ties to fishing processing business and 3 months of work enables her to take a 9 month weekend. That is not how it goes for the rest of the USA.
And its also not majority white kid; quite the opposite. Alaska ranks one of the highest for seasonal work visas, not to mention the diversity of the American young folks who come up for the season.
 
Seasonal summer work living the dream is totally the American dream and nightmare at the same time. Definitely a majority white kid proposition.

Really seams the American Dream is true if you are white American Dude.

For immigrants they have ice and shattered dreams.

How does it make you old white guys feel to live the dream as Palestinian kids are starved and killed and Russia continues to try and take over Ukraine?

We can not isolate from the bigger truth that the world is finite with to many to sustain and at our luxury and Dream many others are suffering and dying.
Immigrants do great in this country that's why they come...illegal invaders not so much. It's about time we clean house. Without borders you don't have a country.
 
I sleep fine.
Maybe because I don't break other nation's laws, for one thing.
And I had nothing to do with causing the situations in Palestine or Ukraine.
Doesn't mean I necessarily like some of the stuff occurring, but I don't feel guilty about it at all.

I went to an Indian college. Could have had a full ride if I had went into nursing and agreed to 10 years working for the BIA in an Indian hospital of their choice.
Oh...we were Indians back then, by the way. None of this indigenous people tripe, even though maybe that's more accurate.

So, no, I have no guilt. Sympathy to a point, maybe. But no guilt.
I went to school in the late 80's after already starting a family and being self employed for a while. I remember reading posting about grants pronouncing priority for low income "minorities" and then going to class to be told how the white guy got all the breaks. I don't know who got the breaks but I always got the bills. I worked all day and went to school at night 60 miles from home... because I lived where I could afford to live.

There was no school loan forgiveness back then...well not that anybody ever told me about. I paid every dime!
 
nd for the record.
If your "dream" is to work your whole life to die within 10 years of your retirement, which is the norm today.
I truly feel sorry for you.
I'm approaching 70. Cars and home all paid off, all the toys I could want, work from home, pretty flexible hours doing what I love to do which is solving hard problems and helping others do their jobs.

I could have retired years ago and am thinking about retiring in a couple / few years but it will be when I am incompetant and they decide to throw me out.

If I was retired right now I would still be craving doing what I get paid for now every day.
 
Formula for achieving ANY dream:

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The thing about the T-Rex is they are not 'well-armed' ...

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If that's your dream.
Go for it.
It's not mine.
You seem to want to cram your dreams down everyone's throat just to prove you're right.
There is no right answer.
Only perspective.
It's not a matter of "right" or "wrong". It's a matter of what works and what doesn't work. Plans or designs are best done developed from the top down. You start by determining what you want/need and then design a way to get there. You may not be completely happy with each required step.

What I think we're seeing these days is a lot of people who want stuff but they're unwilling to do what it takes to earn it and they want to blame somebody else. Worse they want to vote themselves free stuff. Letting everybody vote was a terrible idea.
 
Lol, it's just a joke. My parents are boomers and I love them to death. I'm not blaming boomers. Just noticing facts. For instance, under the watch of the Boomer generation immigration and debt (personal and national) have exploded and become unmanageable, the family has been destroyed and the living wage that the heads of households enjoyed into the 1970s has disappeared to the point where a one-income household has nearly vanished. And of course, not all, not all, not all, (as Jesse Peterson would say) but what drives me nuts about the boomers is that they can't see that things today are different than when they were growing up and coming of age. They had it much, much easier.
As a "boomer" I can tell you that nobody checked with me about any of that stuff. They didn't have it easier but a lot of things did change. Just off the top of my head, women went to work, illegal immigration went out of control and a big one, the rest of the world started to catch up in manufacturing. There was a period after ww2 when the USA was manufacturing everything. So I guess it isn't quite as easy to make a decent living without knowing how to do anything. The way to the "American Dream" has to change as the world changes.
 
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The "American Dream" as coined by James Truslow never existed: "a dream of a social order in which each man Sand each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable". So, I guess my answer is NO. Is everyone "able" to attain the fullest stature of which they are innately capable? Well "able" means "to have the power, skill, means, or opportunity to do something". I guess there is a greater than zero chance of it happening for everyone, but the power and and opportunity part of that definition is becoming less likely by the day. I'm almost 50 and I recognize that it is near impossible for the kids today to have the same things that the boomers (spit) did. Possible? Sure. As easy as it was even 50 years ago, no f'ing way.
I hear this, and then I see a lot of people in their 20s who came from poor or middle class families yet they're making six figures. Some are millionaires, e.g., Nick Huber (Google him).

Yeah, it takes some brains, but it really takes some ambition, initiative, willing to risk failure (but what are you really risking in your 20s?), a little discipline, and a work ethic.

Everyone IS able to attain the fullest stature of what they're innately capable; most people (myself included) don't do it. Why? Because we get comfortable. I've made a ton of money, lost it, made more, lost some of it... my problem is that I'm not risk-adverse enough. But even I am learning! And there's plenty of opportunity, but you have to look for it, and then you have to recognize it.

Any young person can become well off by the time they're 30 with a simple recipe. Learn a trade by working for someone else... construction, plumbing, electrician, garage door repair, landscaping... service jobs that cannot be outsourced to China and can't be replaced by AI. Save your money, buy the tools you'll need to go out on your own. Once you've put 3 to 5 years in, you should have learned enough to go out on your own. Put out your own shingle. Build relationships with customers and fellow service workers in adjacent fields... plumbers know electricians who know contractors who know roofers who know, etc. Use those relationships to send work to others and to get referrals from others. Start an LLC, get a logo put on your work truck, have a separate phone # (you can support two phone numbers on one cell phone today, or use Google Voice). Get a website. If you can't make in the upper 5 figures in your mid to late 20s using this approach you're not trying. Yes, you may have to move to somewhere that has enough demand; you won't make this living in a town of 2,000 people.

Or, go to college. Get a degree in tech or go into medicine: computer science, mechanical engineering, electronic engineering, aerospace engineering... nursing, pre-med, PT, etc. Yes, that will cost more. You'll make it back IF you study hard, apply yourself, make good grades. If you leave college with a 2.5 GPA you'll be lucky if you can get a shift manager job at McDonald's. If you leave with a GPA of 3.5 or above, you'll have a lot of job offers. Why? Your GPA is directly connected to how hard you work and how much you persevere. It will take hard work for 3 to 5 years to pay off your loans, but you can do it, and then it's off to the races income-wise.

A decent job in your 20s sets you up for success. Buy a duplex, live in one side, rent the other. Eventually, buy another duplex, rent both sides. Rinse and repeat.

The point is, there's LOTS of ways to become wealthy (not super-rich... some of that is luck), but becoming a millionaire can be done in a decade from scratch, with hard work that is smartly directed.

If you don't think the American Dream exists, that's the problem. Look at what you do, what you spend money on, how much you save... maybe it's not the lack of the American Dream, it's the lack of the right moves on your part. The good news is, every day is a chance to re-invent your life. Ray Kroc started McDonald's when he was 60 after decades of a mediocre (at best) career in sales.
 
Hmm. Coming from the educational end of things, this is what I see.

1. The American Dream is there but young people need to go into trades that are in demand. Unless your job requires a bona fide college degree, most people would be better off learning a trade that is in demand such as pipefitting, welding, electrician work et al. Getting a degree in something like general studies and accruing a near six figure debt in the form of student loads is a recipe for disaster.

2. Adjusting expectations. I used to live in Massachusetts. It is now one of the most expensive states to live in . Housing is well above the price point for many people starting out. There are few "starter" homes available to the public , at least in the northeast. If you can find a house lot and build your own or have a home built to a place that is say 1000 square feet or less would be affordable. Then again you would have to check zoning as more and more places are demanding things such as 2 acre house lots and the like. One may have to "vote with their feet" to a more desirable location.

3. Education. Society needs to rethink education. One day I was having a shot of Krupnik and a beer with some Polish friends. Their niece spent the summer studying in Poland. She is exceptionally sharp and is going to be a nurse. Long story short, in Poland education is education. It is not multi-million-dollar student centers and exercise centers. It is not DEI courses and other things that are artificially created. Although tuition is free (you have to pass a stringent exam to enter college) books as well as room and board are not. So, you need some money.

American higher ed is very top heavy. I listen to a talk show hosted by Howie Carr. He is a conservative show host and journalist. He put together the top 500 earners in the University of Massachusetts, and it shows that the school is very top heavy. Here is an example:

Head Basketball Coach- $1.3 million
Vice Provost Strata Initia( what is that? ) - $846k

That is just the tip of the iceberg. You have so many people with patronage jobs that have no utility of purpose. It sucks up the state treasury and just puts a young person in debt. So, they have no opportunity to obtain a practical education and then start to work and are able to build a home, marry and have a family.

4. The current illegal immigration crisis. I know this is a touchy issue for some, but illegals are a huge drain on society. Never mind the whole issue of " they are doing jobs that no one else wants to do". Well. How many social services are the sucking up? How much money is being pumped into "learing" centers? Here in Maine the Maine Wire has exposed a new scam. It is called the "Immortal Somalis". On record, no Somali has had a death certificate for natural deaths. So what is going on? Is this a case of a massive fraud and scam? It sure looks like it. All of this adds up in the end . So we as a society must stop this bleed off of money. Think of it this way. For every house that is occupied by an illegal alien is one less for a citizen.

I could think of other things but it laundry time.
 
And its also not majority white kid; quite the opposite. Alaska ranks one of the highest for seasonal work visas, not to mention the diversity of the American young folks who come up for the season.
Think about what could happen to someone's life if they made a year's income in three months, and then worked for the other nine months so they could save and invest that money. If you did this for 10 years, you could retire and have your annual income forever.
 
Interesting. Looking at it from outside the US I'd say that you seem to have a tyrant now, and that the dream as described by Adams may be found in Europe rather than in the US these days. As long as we manage to keep our potential tyrants from winning elections...

😂😂😂😂
Found in Europe? European countries are putting people in jail for posts on social media, while ignoring r*pe gangs.
 
I'm approaching 70. Cars and home all paid off, all the toys I could want, work from home, pretty flexible hours doing what I love to do which is solving hard problems and helping others do their jobs.

I could have retired years ago and am thinking about retiring in a couple / few years but it will be when I am incompetant and they decide to throw me out.

If I was retired right now I would still be craving doing what I get paid for now every day.
When did work get to be a bad word? I'm "retired" but I still work a few days a week. I cut back for health reasons. I never planned on giving up "work". Although it's nice not to have to go to work every day.

In fact my retirement plan is basically have everything paid off (done) take the Social Security and Medicare Benefits that I've been paying into for more than 50 years and keep working and adding to my savings for as long as I can.

I will soon have to completely quit the work that I've been doing for the last 11 years but I'll do something else. For some of us fishing and making feather sticks just isn't enough. It's not all about the money.
 
That’s exactly what they are doing. Enforcing our constitutional requirements for immigration. Something the last administration did not do.
Lots of administrations didn't do it. They just kept kicking the problem down the road. Even this administration has basically agreed to lay off of certain industries and most states still don't require most employers to verify employee credentials. When it is a "requirement" it's pretty much BS because there aren't any penalties for not doing it. We are still being fed a line of BS by about everybody involved.

As it pertains to this thread though I don't think it matters. These are all things that we can't really do anything about. It's just a distraction. I have to spend most of my time and effort working toward the goals that I set for myself and my family in the environment as it exists.
 
I prompted several AI's the following: Explain the American Dream. When was the concept developed and how has it changed over the generations.
An interesting commonality of the responses was: The most significant change is the transition from Qualitative (character and social order) to Quantitative (money and assets).

deepseek: https://chat.deepseek.com/share/ybzf2niwnsyjlyrjdl

Grok: https://x.com/i/grok/share/45176a1eeee542ec91a808ea4b47f9f8

Google Gemini:

The American Dream is a national ethos—the idea that the government should protect each person's opportunity to pursue their own idea of happiness. While the sentiment has existed since the founding of the United States, the specific name and "look" of the dream have shifted dramatically over time.

1. The Origin (1931)

The term was coined by historian James Truslow Adams in his 1931 book, The Epic of America.
  • Context: He wrote it during the Great Depression, a time when many Americans were losing hope.
  • Definition: Adams did not define the dream by cars or houses. He called it a "dream of a social order in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable."
  • The Foundation: It was rooted in the Declaration of Independence’s promise of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

2. Evolution Through the Generations

The way Americans define "success" has changed as the economy and culture evolved.
GenerationThe "Dream" DefinedTypical Symbol
Post-WWII (1946–1964)Security & Stability. After the war, the dream became tangible and suburban.A mortgaged home with a white picket fence and a steady 40-year career.
Gen X (1965–1980)Individualism & Affluence. The dream shifted toward personal wealth and "climbing the ladder."The corporate executive role and high-end consumer goods.
Millennials (1981–1996)Experience & Impact. A shift away from "ownership" (due to student debt/2008 crash) toward meaningful work.Travel, education, and "work-life balance" over a big house.
Gen Z (1997–2012)Financial Autonomy. In 2026, the dream is about escaping the "rat race" and achieving stability in a volatile economy.Debt-freedom, remote work, and "entrepreneurship of the self."

3. How It Has Changed

The most significant change is the transition from Qualitative (character and social order) to Quantitative (money and assets).
  • From "Better" to "Richer": James Truslow Adams actually lamented that people were beginning to confuse the dream with "motor cars and high wages." By the 1980s, that confusion was complete—the dream was almost entirely measured by net worth.
  • The Mobility Gap: In the 1950s, 90% of children grew up to earn more than their parents. In 2026, that number has dropped to roughly 50%. This has led to a "rebranding" of the dream from getting ahead to simply getting by without crushing debt.
  • Inclusivity: Originally, the "American Dream" was implicitly (and sometimes explicitly) reserved for white men. Over generations, the civil rights movement, women's suffrage, and LGBTQ+ advocacy have fought to make the dream a reality for all citizens.

4. The 2026 Perspective

Today, the American Dream is often viewed through the lens of "Time Wealth." With housing prices at historic highs relative to incomes, many are abandoning the "house and yard" metric in favor of the freedom to work from anywhere and the ability to retire before age 70.
Key takeaway: The dream isn't dead, but it has become "bespoke." It is less about a national standard and more about an individual's ability to live life on their own terms.​
Since we previously discussed social mobility, would you like me to find data on which US regions currently offer the best "return on investment" for those trying to achieve the modern American Dream?
 
Since we previously discussed social mobility, would you like me to find data on which US regions currently offer the best "return on investment" for those trying to achieve the modern American Dream?

Ha, that might just ruffle a lot of feathers. All one has to do is look at +/- of populations of states (excluding illegals) over the last 5 years to get that answer. Oh, and look at the same thing when it comes to business migrations.
 
That’s exactly what they are doing. Enforcing our constitutional requirements for immigration. Something the last administration did not do.
Exactly. The Constitution puts the president squarely in charge of protecting the borders, which includes immigration ... This is NOT a states rights issue ...
 
Did you see that the Tongva tribe has an attorney that will go after Billie Eilish to reclaim the stolen land and her $14M house built on top it? The law firm is the top real estate firm in the country. I'm sure the lawyers all did a spit take when Ms. Eilish admitted to possession of stolen property... talk about a hefty lawsuit.
I don't think she meant what everybody thinks she meant. " there are no illegals on stolen land". She didn't mean land stolen from tribes. That thought probably never entered her mind. She was referring to Reconquista. The Reconquista ("reconquest") is an irredentist vision by different individuals, groups, and/or nations that the Southwestern United States should be politically or culturally returned to Mexico.
IE one can't be an illegal if the land was stolen from your country. T he fact that Mexico stole the land from the tribes, forced them into servitude and forced them to their religion is moot. My SIL's mother and one of his brothers believe this. They hate America and anyone not La Raza
 
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