Munson Last Boots

[JamesSaylor]

Just throwing out a question on here to see if anyone has an idea where to find a proper pair of these that won't cost an arm and a leg, before I start saving up to buy a custom pair of Nicks.

As simply as I can put this, I've been hunting for years for a properly-made and durable boot that will fit me well, not hurt my feet, and last for more than a few months of use. I've got ridiculously-shaped feet (10 1/2 EEE on a Brannock, with some other fun quirks that make it even harder to find a good fit), and while I used to purchase Merrell MOAB boots and they fit well enough and held up well, the last few pairs I purchased fell apart in a matter of a few months. I've since been wearing Muck 6" Chore Classics, and these have been pretty good from a comfort standpoint but after about 6 months of wear on a pair I'm encountering splits in the uppers and delamination of the sole. For my use case and what I'm looking for, I've identified the Edward Munson last as being a good starting point for finding a boot that might actually work out well. After reading through his book A Soldier's Foot, and the Military Shoe, I've determined that he has aware of and created a last design that resolves a number of the issues I have with all of the boots I've purchased to date. In a perfect world, I would go through getting properly described in the manner which his book describes (differently than Brannock, Munson sizing was done standing on one foot under load, to match a profile of the foot during use) and get boots made accordingly on his last design. I thought I would get close enough when I ordered a pair of Corcoran jump boots in a size 11W, which would fit just a touch long but should have been pretty close to the width needed. I intended on treating and stretching the leather as necessary with a boot stretcher to get the fit proper, then breaking them in. However, when I got them there were a couple issues. First, they sent me two right boots. I'm not sure how this was done, especially considering that there were QC tags in with each boot as well as one in the box itself. Additionally, the boots were incredibly too long for my feet, and were so narrow I couldn't even start to get my foot into the boots.

So, back to the drawing board. I suppose what I'm after at this point is just a recommendation for a boot that is made on the actual Munson last, not a knock off that is not made to the same specifications, and is available in the wider sizing I require. In my research, I've yet to come across a company that still makes this. Alternatively, if someone has any other recommendations for a durable boot that is made in sizing that would work for me, it would be appreciated. Bonus points if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg, but I've more or less resigned myself to buying another pair of the Muck boots to get by for a while and saving towards a $700 pair of Nicks that will be made specifically to fit my feet. Or perhaps I'll assist in our move towards following through with the movie Idiocracy and start wearing Crocs everywhere I go.

 

[300Dman]

Just throwing out a question on here to see if anyone has an idea where to find a proper pair of these that won't cost an arm and a leg, before I start saving up to buy a custom pair of Nicks.

As simply as I can put this, I've been hunting for years for a properly-made and durable boot that will fit me well, not hurt my feet, and last for more than a few months of use. I've got ridiculously-shaped feet (10 1/2 EEE on a Brannock, with some other fun quirks that make it even harder to find a good fit), and while I used to purchase Merrell MOAB boots and they fit well enough and held up well, the last few pairs I purchased fell apart in a matter of a few months. I've since been wearing Muck 6" Chore Classics, and these have been pretty good from a comfort standpoint but after about 6 months of wear on a pair I'm encountering splits in the uppers and delamination of the sole. For my use case and what I'm looking for, I've identified the Edward Munson last as being a good starting point for finding a boot that might actually work out well. After reading through his book A Soldier's Foot, and the Military Shoe, I've determined that he has aware of and created a last design that resolves a number of the issues I have with all of the boots I've purchased to date. In a perfect world, I would go through getting properly described in the manner which his book describes (differently than Brannock, Munson sizing was done standing on one foot under load, to match a profile of the foot during use) and get boots made accordingly on his last design. I thought I would get close enough when I ordered a pair of Corcoran jump boots in a size 11W, which would fit just a touch long but should have been pretty close to the width needed. I intended on treating and stretching the leather as necessary with a boot stretcher to get the fit proper, then breaking them in. However, when I got them there were a couple issues. First, they sent me two right boots. I'm not sure how this was done, especially considering that there were QC tags in with each boot as well as one in the box itself. Additionally, the boots were incredibly too long for my feet, and were so narrow I couldn't even start to get my foot into the boots.

So, back to the drawing board. I suppose what I'm after at this point is just a recommendation for a boot that is made on the actual Munson last, not a knock off that is not made to the same specifications, and is available in the wider sizing I require. In my research, I've yet to come across a company that still makes this. Alternatively, if someone has any other recommendations for a durable boot that is made in sizing that would work for me, it would be appreciated. Bonus points if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg, but I've more or less resigned myself to buying another pair of the Muck boots to get by for a while and saving towards a $700 pair of Nicks that will be made specifically to fit my feet. Or perhaps I'll assist in our move towards following through with the movie Idiocracy and start wearing Crocs everywhere I go.

Is there someplace you can go where you could try on different sizes of military boots? The military has the wider sizes but I not sure if they have 1/2 sizes. My knowledge of that is from the 1970's.

Military sized boots likely don't match civilian sized boots. As with say civilian pants a one companies large is another companies' medium. Shoe sizes are no longer standardized.

My mother worked in a shoe store in the 1960's. Mostly US made shoes at that time. During that time sizes from brand to brand were at least close. By the time most of the shoes in the US are made in China were no longer standardized. You need to try them on in order to find a fit.

In the army around 1971 I bought a pair of Corcoran jump boots. They fit well and were great when I was walking in them but If I had to stand in place for over 30 minutes, they started to hurt my feet in the arch area.

Back to part of what I said. You need to find someplace where you can try them on. Try them on somewhere and if you find a good fit and like them and they cost too much go on the internet and find the same brand and size cheaper.

Again, this is back in time. They also did not stretch much even if they were wet. Don't know if it is true but I was told they were made of horse hide.

 

[JamesSaylor]

Is there someplace you can go where you could try on different sizes of military boots? The military has the wider sizes but I not sure if they have 1/2 sizes. My knowledge of that is from the 1970's.

Military sized boots likely don't match civilian sized boots. As with say civilian pants a one companies large is another companies' medium. Shoe sizes are no longer standardized.

My mother worked in a shoe store in the 1960's. Mostly US made shoes at that time. During that time sizes from brand to brand were at least close. By the time most of the shoes in the US are made in China were no longer standardized. You need to try them on in order to find a fit.

In the army around 1971 I bought a pair of Corcoran jump boots. They fit well and were great when I was walking in them but If I had to stand in place for over 30 minutes, they started to hurt my feet in the arch area.

Back to part of what I said. You need to find someplace where you can try them on. Try them on somewhere and if you find a good fit and like them and they cost too much go on the internet and find the same brand and size cheaper.

Again, this is back in time. They also did not stretch much even if they were wet. Don't know if it is true but I was told they were made of horse hide.

The sizing difference was one of the big issues that Munson targeted specifically when he developed boot designs for the military. Before his involvement, even military boots were all over the place with sizing and foot injury and discomfort was far more common. This is a lot of why I went with the Corcoran jump boots, and ordered based upon direct measurements compared to the Munson sizing, which is supposed to be standardized. I did have to deviate from the proper sizing for my feet to get a wider width, because the Corcoran boots are no longer made in the full range of sizes they used to be. The fact the boots weren't even close to fitting indicates that it is likely they're not even using the standard lasts for these boots, and have instead started making them to be closer to the boots traditional for the civilian market.

Unfortunately most of the shoe stores in my area have just civilian brands and sizing. I concur with your statement about inconsistent sizing in these. Did you wear the jump boots exclusively during the time you owned them? Munson's last design was produced with no arch support in order to permit the feet returning to their natural state and building muscle in the arch that most people have had dystrophy on account of modern shoe design that over-supports and confines the feet. The pain you're describing is something he identified as a sign that the feet were returning to a proper natural state, and would in time (a few weeks of normal and drill wear, but no extended marching during this time) become stronger and less susceptible to injury. This was only possible if the individual didn't counteract the strengthening by wearing other shoes, though. I suspect this is why a lot of the veterans I knew who wore the jump boots and others designed based on Munson's last could never return to wearing civilian footwear after service; the shoes were just not made for a foot in it's natural state since they are made to restrict and narrow the toes for the sake of appearance, and they over-support the foot restricting natural movement.

The jump boots, from my reading, were to have been made exclusively from a veg-tanned leather, and were supposed to be able to be soaked and worn in order to resize them to feet if necessary. Some of the later manufactured boots, though, came with a pretty substantial coating that was to permit better shine for inspection, and were thus not as breathable and also couldn't be wetted without stripping the finish first with alcohol. I did not see anything about horse hide being used during my reading, but if it were the durability of the boots would have been pretty ridiculous by comparison to cow hide.

I've been to most every shoe store and manufacturer I can get to over the last few years, and it's hit a point that I simply cannot find anything even close to my size, the only places that I can find anything are online retailers but then I have the issue of not being able to try them on. Just another case of the over-centralization of markets causing issues, I suppose.

Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, this issue is something I've spent a few years trying to sort out for myself now, as everything that used to fit well and hold up has been moved to overseas manufacturing and no longer works for me. Figuring at this point I'm either going to have to order something custom-fit, or break out my leatherworking tools and hand-make a pair of boots to fit. Knowing how much work this would be, though, I'm figuring I'd be better served by just paying the $700 for a made-to-fit pair of Nicks.

 

[wisconsinwalter]

Might be easier to refer to your width as F. Instead of EEE. I am F as well.

you statement of buying boots while saving up means your are going to spend $700-1000 to get the eventual pair you want for $600.

My advice is to start looking at the Indonesian makers. I got a full on custom fitted Engineering boot in Shinki Horse butt for $340 from Renav Goods.

He communicated every step of the process to be sure we were getting the right measurements and the boots fit great the first time!

he only took a deposit to get going and will fix any sizing issues up remaking the boot on his dime if it doesn’t fit.

These boots would be up to $1000 if made in the US

Worth a look

 

[Ol' Squirrel Hunter]

My feet are wide upfront, with very high arches and very narrow heel.

Here is my response to a past post.

I have a hard time finding shoes to fit properly. I don't wear orthopedics. I do however buy shoes at an old fashioned 4th generation, family owned shoe store that sells, fits, and adjusts orthopedic shoes along with selling regular shoes.

Since they are experienced with orthopedics they know how to properly fit a shoe to my foot whether by stretching, shrinking or various inserts.

The store is a bit of a drive and costs more than a large chain type store, but the sales person spends a good deal of time with the customer and is also the same person that does any required fitting to the shoes.

Stores like this are fewer and fewer but they are out there. Good luck.

The boot uppers needed to be all leather to stretch and shrink using steam or dry heat.

Good luck with your search.

 

[wisconsinwalter]

Another idea is to join any of the custom boot makers Facebook groups. Many of the guys there are like the guys here buying knives.

they buy a knife and sell it to move up. Same with boots. Guys buy boots because it’s the next hot thing but then the next leather comes out and they move to it.

you can get great deals for way less. Or ask to find what you want like this below


Or buy a like new pair

 

[HiddenSmile]

Have the exact same problem, super wide feet. A pair of nicks munson would be nice...but that price.
These are more along the lines of barefoot boots, but just some other options out there.

Mini-Mil TR105 / Minimalist Training Boot

A true coyote color minimalist boot from Belleville Boot Company featuring a 2mm drop between the heel and forefoot, the Mini-Mil® is designed specifically for the conditioned warrior athlete currently training in minimalist athletic footwear.

www.bellevilleboot.com

Leather Boulder Boot | Men's Zero Drop Minimalist Boots | Lems

Lems Men's Leather Boulder Boots feature a zero-drop, wide toe box and minimalist design which offers a lightweight and comfortable experience. Shop our barefoot men's boots available in black and brown leather. Shop Now >

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Men's Boulder Summit Waterproof

If you’ve been holding your breath for us to release a Boulder Boot style that can properly tackle the trails, you can go ahead and release that breath. Now take another, and another, because you’ll be huffing and puffing up and over mountains and along stretches of dirt and rock in your spiffy...

www.lemsshoes.com

 

[HiddenSmile]

Just throwing out a question on here to see if anyone has an idea where to find a proper pair of these that won't cost an arm and a leg, before I start saving up to buy a custom pair of Nicks.

As simply as I can put this, I've been hunting for years for a properly-made and durable boot that will fit me well, not hurt my feet, and last for more than a few months of use. I've got ridiculously-shaped feet (10 1/2 EEE on a Brannock, with some other fun quirks that make it even harder to find a good fit), and while I used to purchase Merrell MOAB boots and they fit well enough and held up well, the last few pairs I purchased fell apart in a matter of a few months. I've since been wearing Muck 6" Chore Classics, and these have been pretty good from a comfort standpoint but after about 6 months of wear on a pair I'm encountering splits in the uppers and delamination of the sole. For my use case and what I'm looking for, I've identified the Edward Munson last as being a good starting point for finding a boot that might actually work out well. After reading through his book A Soldier's Foot, and the Military Shoe, I've determined that he has aware of and created a last design that resolves a number of the issues I have with all of the boots I've purchased to date. In a perfect world, I would go through getting properly described in the manner which his book describes (differently than Brannock, Munson sizing was done standing on one foot under load, to match a profile of the foot during use) and get boots made accordingly on his last design. I thought I would get close enough when I ordered a pair of Corcoran jump boots in a size 11W, which would fit just a touch long but should have been pretty close to the width needed. I intended on treating and stretching the leather as necessary with a boot stretcher to get the fit proper, then breaking them in. However, when I got them there were a couple issues. First, they sent me two right boots. I'm not sure how this was done, especially considering that there were QC tags in with each boot as well as one in the box itself. Additionally, the boots were incredibly too long for my feet, and were so narrow I couldn't even start to get my foot into the boots.

So, back to the drawing board. I suppose what I'm after at this point is just a recommendation for a boot that is made on the actual Munson last, not a knock off that is not made to the same specifications, and is available in the wider sizing I require. In my research, I've yet to come across a company that still makes this. Alternatively, if someone has any other recommendations for a durable boot that is made in sizing that would work for me, it would be appreciated. Bonus points if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg, but I've more or less resigned myself to buying another pair of the Muck boots to get by for a while and saving towards a $700 pair of Nicks that will be made specifically to fit my feet. Or perhaps I'll assist in our move towards following through with the movie Idiocracy and start wearing Crocs everywhere I go.

If you are looking for more of a durable/workboot try these. I bought a pair of carolina boots used and have had zero problems with them breaking. 10 1/2 4w - < $200 - decent bang for buck.

Work Boots for Men | Carolina Shoe

Shop the best work boots for men at Carolina. From slip-on boots and waterproof boots to must-have steel-toe styles, you’ll find a trusted fit.

www.carolinashoe.com

 

[XMP]

I seem to recall that White’s boots have certain models that are made on the Munson last. I know they’re not cheap but it’s worth a look.

 

[rockett88s]

I am blessed to have a foot that is pretty standard sized at 11.5 E. I have bought stock boots from Wesco and had no need for any sort of stretching... But Nick's Boots, White's boots, Schnee's and Hoffman all have phone numbers by which you can call, and talk to the guys making the boot, and have interesting and informative conversations about all of the various lasts they can use to fit your foot..... they have informed boot info dudes who can walk you through their fit process and some have guaranteed fit clauses when you order from them....

Pinterest has a number of homegrown boot makers... Quoddy Mocassins will make shoes and passable Camp Boots, also fitted to your foot. If you want a military boot that fits a wider foot, you might look into Belleville and Bates Mountain Combat Boots... They are sized differently than civillian shoes. Both companies have online guides that are good to very good, and both have help numbers and help emails so you can ask any questions you might have about proper sizing. Just before my last tour I was sent over to the RFI to get outfitted with the MCBs.... There was a civillian representative there.... one guy trying to assist 60 young soldiers, none of whom had much clue about how to properly fit boots.... He was quite happy to see that I had taken the time to show up with proper combat boot socks, and a reasonable clue as to how boots fit my foot.... I knew some of the senior NCOs from the unit, most of whom had no real clue about boot fitting , either.... I guess my rant here is that even the services don't pay too much attention to properly fit combat boots any more....

Those Belleville 950 Mountain Combat boots do come in extra wide widths... and they wear like iron and provide good support and protection....read the fitting guide, you can get those boots all over E Bay, and from the two companies' websites....

 

[plainsman53]

My opinion costs nothing so that is exactly what it's worth. I think you may be happier just to get the Nick's. I finally bought some White's Packers about 12 years ago. They cost more dollars than any I'd ever bought but they have been the cheapest footwear I've ever owned. My wife measured (traced) my feet and they built a pair of boots for me. I own another pair of them now and trade them off ever so often. That's all I wear. I was visiting with a man at the local sale barn who commented on my boots. He had worn White's for years and now wears Nick's. Maybe they are better, he switched.

 

[wildman73]

Corcoran, Jim green. Don't know if JG are Munson last. But they maybe wider even.

 

[santig]

OP,
did you try an insole ?

 

[Seeker]

If your feet are that ridiculously hard to fit, just go straight to Limmer and get them custom made... your time is worth what? In my case, I value it at 2x my hourly wage... but be conservative and figure it at 1.5... then count the hours searching, plus the cost of boots that don't fit, and then compare it to getting a boot that fits and will last for awhile.

Shop Peter Limmer & Sons

Limmer Custom Boots Since 1919, the Limmer family has been focused on providing the highest quality footwear. We are known for the precision, ruggedness, and functional design of our custom hiking boots. If you have a history of fit issues, foot problems, or simply want to own the best hiking...

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